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Roseanne: Wake up- the sad day where intelligence and success are measured by one's ACT scores has already come. ACT/SAT scores are absolutely CRUCIAL to getting into a high-caliber university- I'd think you'd already know that. No matter how hard kids work in high school to get whatever GPA they earn, that one-shot test is where it really counts. And parent's realize that, which is why I made the "delusionally randian" proclamation that a good majority of LF parents pay to get their kids tutored for the ACT. Knowing that some tutors guarantee a minimum 5 point improvement in a student's score, wouldn't you pay for a tutor for your child? Especially if you could afford it?! Also, Roseanne, I'll have you know that I'm perfectly fine making good on the implicit social contract I've entered into being born into a fortunate spot in life. However, I do think there's a line drawn between appropriate social funding and socialism. Sounds to me like you'd enjoy a move overseas to Sweden!

So I've heard from the 5 people in Lake Forest who disagree with my post- I'll take that as a sign the silent majority is in full agreement.

To sign off, I'll leave you with this YouTube clip of one of my personal heroes, Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey, making CRYSTAL CLEAR my general opinion on this whole matter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw0aBkt8CPA

Just an aside to this comment set. The teachers aren't holding out for a raise or benefit boost. The board has taken actions in their "offer" that will systematically reduce the overall compensation a teacher in this district receives. I doubt that even ScoutGuardian would be interested in examining his income and willfully reducing it for his fellow man.

In this very difficult economic time many of us are unemployed, underemployed and have not had any type of raise. My family pays for all of our own health insurance and we do not generous pension benefits. In fact, we are using our savings to stay afloat. When our own family is struggling it's difficult to give more than we already are. The LFHS teachers are wonderful and appreciated and nobody wants to lose benefits, but that is what is happening to all of us.

LF Parent, you couldn't have better described what the parents are feeling within the community. We love our teachers, but we just don't have the financing to give them generous pay at this time.

It is unfortunate that we live in these economic times. Things need to be put into some perspective here. Everyone is hurting. Even our city, one of the wealthiest cities in the nation is not immune to these economic effects. To use it comparatively against the surrounding areas seems a bit strange however. I encourage you to look at the status of our district and educate yourselves on certain facts. The Illinois Local Education Agency retrieval Network (ILEARN) is the place to go for statistics. (Not the media, do your own research)
Take a look at the district’s expenditures.
Expenditures/Disbursements
Category Amount ($) % of Total
Instruction 19,799,342 40.18
General Administration 367,897 0.75
Support Services 14,756,833 29.95
Others 14,352,087 29.13
49,276,159
Difference (Revenue - Expense) -2,379,387

Instruction includes the teachers and as one can plainly see, the staff makes up no more than 40.18% of the budget. (hmmmm)
To blame the teachers for the District’s economic woes is nothing more than making them an easy scapegoat. Unfortunately, in these times this has become the trend.

The referendum which was needed has helped make our school current with the best facilities our (all) children deserve.
Many watch groups in our community have noted that a lot of the upgrades in our school that were promised in the referendum have been forgotten about. The referendum was not fully funded and close to 2 million dollars was taken out of the Education fund. This well documented mismanagement by the Board is now being dismissed by statements of “forget the past, we have to deal with now.”
Fact: the teachers’ offer does NOT ask for any money from the community or any kind of tax hikes. The teachers would never ask for increases in these times.
To say, we do not have the financing in the community to give a continued competitive pay at this time is simply an irrelevant issue considering no one is asking for anything more from the community.

Tax Information
Equalized Assessed Valuation Amount($)
EAV/Pupil($) 2,161,932
EAVPP Rank* 1
Real EAV($) 3,564,550,621
Formula Type C
Statewide Avg. Total Rate 3.9204
Tax Rate Information %
Total Tax Rate 1.0009
Total Rate Rank* 101
Operating Tax Rate 0.8399
Operating Tax Rate Rank* 101
Statewide Avg. Operating Tax Rate 3.5609

The operating tax rate is very low compared to the state average. WHAT A BARGAIN WE ARE GETTING FOR SUCH A LOW TAX RATE!
There are people like the ScoutGuardian supporting radicals on both sides of the fence. It should be noted that these radicals are looking to make education in the United States equal for all (what a radical idea). There was a bill that was shot down to do this in Illinois last year. Illinois is one of several states left that still has local school boards. Most states, stunningly mostly Red Southern States, have equalized education for all. What does this mean? For example, In Kansas all people are taxed in the state at the cap of 4%. This money is put into a pool and given to all locals equally. What would this mean? High Equalized Assessed values (Big Expensive Houses) would generate revenue for a community like North Chicago. The money that was needed to run a school per pupil (~$12,500 in Kansas) would be equally dispersed to all. So all left over money from a community like ours would go to a less fortunate community like North Chicago with their low equalized assessed values. This may be right, and I am not here to argue this. However, for the tax rate we pay I say again, What A BARGAIN!

I'm disappointed by the level of disrespect shown to teachers in some of these comments. When did parents begin to side with their children against teachers? (Long ago, I suppose). My guess is this shift is a result of the competitive nature of the college acceptance process we are all pressured by. Let's remember this community has always valued education and this is our chance to show support for educators, those who have positively shaped our children's lives in more ways than we will ever know.

"support" them or support "them"?

This is going too far and is defaming an individual. We have not been in the classroom. I've always kept this saying in mind: Believe half of what your kids tell you happens at school, and hope that teachers believe only half of what they hear happens at home. We are losing focus of the issue at hand. Either the board has the funds or they don't.

Clearly this is an issue which creates discussion. A good thing. Personal attacks. Not a good thing. I will delete any personal attacks. Stick to the issue(s) at hand. Prove it's possible to debate an issue without having to say something derogatory about the other person. Thanks for your participation.

If it weren't for the teacher's union and the inexplicable tenure system, the average teacher would be making about 3/4 their current wages.

The typical narrative of the underpaid teacher is that a large percentage of teachers have advanced degrees. And when compared to people in other professions, teachers earn less. This sounds pretty compelling until one realizes that Education degrees are universally regarded as a joke, sought and received for little other purpose than a mandatory salary increase, and shockingly easy to acquire. When studies normalize for this by using other measures of cognitive ability, it is not surprising to find that teachers earn more than their cohorts.

The reality is that this economy is terrible; housing values have been plummeting. Many people have lost their jobs and/or taken large salary cuts. Meanwhile, they are stuck paying some of the highest property taxes in the country. So, when they hear about some tenured $150k per year gym teacher, with his 9 month year, 85% pension and platinum lifetime healthcare plan complaining about fair pay, how much sympathy can be expected?

In a truly free market, when someone is underpaid, they have the right to quit and find better employment. If they cannot find better employment, we dismiss the premise. Similarly if somebody is overpaid, the employer should have the right to fire or cut their pay. However, with our public education system, this equilibrium clearly does not exist.

Patch - you should delete personal attacks. I see several posted above mine.

Why is it some people feel free to call someone and "idiot" etc when posting on a message board but would never have the guts to do so in person?... Because it is rude.

The "haves" vs the "have nots" argument gets old quickly. If I look up and down my street, not a single one of my neighbors grew up in LB or LB and none were born with a silver spoon in mouth. Like me, the scrapped and worked and struggled for everything they own. Borrowed lots of money to pay for college, lived in basements or with family after graduation in order to pay back that debt.

My health care costs have doubled in the past 3 years. My retirement plan match was cut in half. My compensation dropped by almost 50% at the low point a couple years ago. In the meantime, my property taxes increased every year. I don't revceive a pension at age 55 nor does anyone else in my office. We receive no pension at all.

Asking teachers for a halt in pay increases during our worst economic downturn since 1920 doesn't make someone a bad person. When health care costs skyrocket and we ask teachers to share in this burden it doesn't make us bad folks. The vast majority of people who I know who live in nice homes earned every penny they have.

A few notes from a LFHS teacher,

The Board of Education wants teachers to pay for their financial mismanagement by offering a contract that would have faculty earning less in 4 years than we earn now. Meanwhile, the other districts whom we compare ourselves to will be earning salary increases. This would definitely have an impact on the parity the boards seeks to have with neighboring schools.

I am speaking for myself when I say the following:

The Board of Education has squandered and mismanaged the tax payers’ money! As a teacher I do not want to help them, BUT I WILL! I am willing to take less in order to bailout the Board. However, with the economy as uncertain as it is why would I agree to lock into a long term contract that systematically reduces my earnings?

As a closing note to my fellow peers posting on this site:

I think it might be a good idea to leave this blog for the community. Some people out there will be with us in our fight for equity and others will be against us. Let’s take the high road and let our negotiation team do the talking at the table. We know the facts and so does the public who is willing to do the research. Lake Forest is a well educated and well informed community.

Thanks

Let's just say, for the sake of the argument, that the Board is guilty of financial mismanagement. In the real world what happens to employees of a business that falls on tough times? Continuing the argument, is our Board responsible for the recession.
I respect and support our teachers and I am grateful that we have a school board that is fiscally responsible.

I'm going to reiterate what I said on the other thread: we need to ask more questions of the board. I feel like I have a very vague idea of where and how money is spent and I do not think it is wise to hypothesize about whether or how money has been mismanaged. Once we have solid documentation of the finances, we will have a clearer idea of the situation we are in.

I too want the school board to clarify where OUR money has gone. It is my understanding that $2.7 million was lent to dist 67. Why, as a taxpayer in LB, should my money go to bail out LF? Why do the members cry poor-mouth and speak of financial responsibility when they all have brand new Mac laptops? Why was part of the construction paid for from the education fund? Why did they pay for new sprinklers from the education fund? Why did they pay for the turf at varsity field from the education fund instead of having boosters raise the money?
Paying teachers is what our tax dollars are supposed to fund! I want my children to attend a school with top rate teachers! We can't attract top- notch teachers if we don't pay them. If surrounding districts pay their teachers better, THEY will get the best teachers and our property values will continue to go down!!! Why else would anyone live here, but to have the best schools, and therefore the best future for our children? If someone disagrees, there are plenty of places to move where education costs less. Joliet pays their teachers half what we do. North Chicago pays less.
We have great teachers. I want them focused on education, not defending themselves!

How much should they make? How much do you make?

How much does it take to live here and feed your family? Or do you think they should't live here? Are they good enough to teach your kids but not good enough to be your neighbors?

If you look at your tax bill, D 67, elementary schools in LF levy higher than LFHS, D115. In 2010. D67 's levy and tax bite went up, while D115 went down. Secondary schools pay a higher wage to faculty than elementary districts for the most part.
If you want to get rid of TENURE, go to Springfield and lobby, its a state law, not a local decision.
Market forces for the faculty at LFHS include the surrounding communities on the North Shore. This is who they and the schools are compared too, not state averages. Most people move to LF/LB for the great schools and lovely community, and are willing to pay for both. Otherwise people would move to other NS communities, and our property values would / will go down even more than they have.

Average salary for CSD 67 is $63,949 ... this is significantly lower than the $101,648 paid to CHSD 115 teachers.

Yes, tenure is law...but it is only law because the teacher's union has effectively extorted it from our government. An example of this was when California introduced prop 74 to increase the time until tenure from 2 to 5 years; the California Teachers Association promptly increased union dues by $60 and raised over $50 million to successfully fight it. So, I'll pass on your suggestion to go to Springfield.

I moved to LF for many reasons, and good schools was one of them. And you are correct that I don't mind paying to ensure consistently high levels of community service. However, when I have to pay for my child's text books, sports programs, and bus service, while paying over 30k per year in property taxes, and at the same time I have to hear about $100k teachers kicking and screaming about a pay freeze and health care contributions in the midst of a global recession that has left over 14 million Americans "officially" unemployed and 45 million on food stamps, I think I have a right to object.

Those same teachers you are hearing about also have families, bills, sports' expenses, and property taxes. They are in the same recession. They are not asking you to pay anything more out of your pocket. They are asking the Board not to CUT their pay, because, just like you, they have many, many payments and have budgeted their money based on their salaries. Suddenly, their salaries are being decreased. That is what they are "kicking and screaming" about. Your taxes will NOT GO UP. The Board is being asked to fund its teachers in good conscience. The money the teachers are asking for is there. We ought to give them our support in asking the Board to distribute it fairly.

"Your taxes will NOT GO UP" ... famous last words Roseanne, if I only had a dollar everytime I heard that one. Fiscal responsibility NEEDS TO APPLY TO EVERYONE!! NOBODY IS EXEMPT! NOT EVEN OUR PRECIOUS TEACHERS.

Is that what a Board member told you when you called---that taxes will go up?? That's not what I was told. Furthermore, I looked into the health insurance question and LFHS teachers are currently paying about $4,000 more for PPO Blue Cross Blue Shield than they did last year. And that's a done deal. There's no turning back on that one. In other words, they are already taking cuts, just like everyone else. This, however, is about a bail out. How well did the last bail out work for you, BJ Tyler? Exactly. This is not us vs. the teachers, but us vs. corruption.

Roseanne, the reality is the following: 1) my property taxes have increased 30% over the past 5 years. 2) CHSD 115 teacher salaries have gone up by about the same amount over the exact same time period, however 3) My total compensation is down well over 50% over that same time period. When you consider the fact that almost everybody I know in LF who works in the Real Estate or Financial Services sector is in a similar boat, can you see why it's difficult not to view this as an us vs. them (teachers) debate?

Yes, I want to end corruption in every form. And if corruption is what's truly behind our current budget situation, responsible parties need to be held accountable. However, by and large, teacher compensation comes from property taxes, and in the end mathematics dictates that any difference between what's being offered and what's being requested will come from those taxes. That either implies those taxes will go up or we will have to cut somewhere else. And if the answer is to cut somewhere else, great! Just show me the cuts first.

See LF taxpayer's last post:
ON TAXES:
"Taxes for school districts will not go up, as that can only happen with a vote of the community. Year to year levy can only go up to the tax cap or CPI whichever is lower."
ON CUTTING COSTS:
1) "The Bd of Education should re-examine the superintendent's golden parachute" retirement package."
2) "Does he need 2 golden retirement pensions, Illinois and Texas?"
3) "Does the district need to buy him a car and pay for his gas??"
4) "A new salary policy needs to be good throughout the system . . . for administration and support staff too"

UGH! Another deleted comment. When a teacher's priority has become obtaining a higher degree and therefore neglects the students at LFHS, there is a problem. During business hours, a teacher's business is to focus on the LFHS classroom, not their personal business. When students are not given equal opportunity (as compared to the same class taught by a different teacher) to learn the course material, there is a problem. When few assignments are actually given, and the teacher doesn't have the time to grade the assignment until the day before the semester ends, there is a problem. How are the students to grow from this type of experience? Is this the sign of a committed teacher? Obtaining a higher education is great, but should NOT be done at the expense of our students and taxpayers. Parents can't help but wonder how this continues to go on. Could anyone get away with this in the private sector? Parents have been asking about this for YEARS, and nothing seems to change... PLEASE, per the League of Women Voters article, ask the teacher (and administration) how they continue to get away with this...

Guess the on- target advice from the LWV of LFLB this morning re: how to blog respectfully and with civility has fallen on deaf ears.
Having been a member of the Board of Education at LFHS for 10 years, the process if one has a personnel issue, is to make an appointment with the Principal to discuss it privately.
And though I digress, in my experience, people get away with all sorts of things in the private sector.

I was referring to the anonymous posts. I used to get anonymous letters when on the Board of Education, I would tear them up.

dear Mr Utah,
Written professionally? You mean did they have punctuation and good grammar or were they on letterhead? They were anonymous diatribes, like some posts seen on this conversation.

Anonymous is anonymous.

I agree with Roseanne. It is amazing what these superintendents talk the board of education into giving them. It is a competition among this fraternity of Superintendents to see who can talk the board into the most and then they discuss it at education conferences in Springfield. Someone needs to ask Harry why he needs so much money. Illinois is out of control with what it pays its superintendents. Why do you think so many retired superintendents move here--for the cold weather? It happens in every north shore district. They bump the Superintendents salary up the last few years of their career and find little tricky ways to increase their retirement. Are you going to take a serious pay cut Harry?