The teachers are over paid and have ridiculous pensions that the public sector does't see. Every time I think about that crook Dr. Harry Griffith lining his pockets with our tax payer money it makes me sick. My daughter is a School Counselor with a Masters from Vanderbilt and is making $42,000. When is enough, enough?

I repeat, we do not have a problem with angry posts on web sites by people who have done nothing to harm our kids. We have a problem with teachers who have taken our kids hostage, shut down our schools just to wring a few more dollars out of the taxpayers' pockets.

The angry posts are just talk. The strikers are the ones doing all the damage and tearing the community apart. Who are the ones who are anti-education? The people telling the teachers to get back to work, or the people who refuse to teach? Shame on the teachers.

The average teacher salary at LFHS is $106,000. They have a great working environment, great benefits, and a ridiculously generous pension plan.

What justifies this strike?

Well.............................................................. we're waiting.

Good God! Look at what Ralph just posted!

Ralph
"It's usually only from private school kids that we hear that they or their parents pay our salaries and we should attend to their needs. (Yes, I've been a recipient of that kind of attitude. Guess what the answer is when they need a letter of recommendation.) "

He's admitting that he takes revenge on students who demand that he attend to their needs!!!

I can barely stay in my chair. I can't.

OK, I've settled down...

Thank you Ralph. We no longer have to wait. You just answered the question as to why the teachers are striking. We now know the mindset of the average teacher. The raw arrogance, the disrespect for the students, the disregard for the parents, and the elitist condescension are there for all to see.

We now know why they are striking. Our teachers are taking revenge on Lake Forest.

@Ralph Keen

WOW - you just exposed yourself there. Actively taking revenge against students/parents who want to hold you accountable since they are paying for your services. Looking forward to your next "above the fray" article where you try to present yourself as independent.

@Holly - You seem like a nice person so lets start off on the right foot. No one hates the teachers. We do hate the greed and lies that are told by the Union. BOE offered a generous increase on top of an already handsome compensation. The Union said no and walked out. The Union says that this is being done because they are "passionate" about the children. I am seeing a passion for money but not much else. All of us who are employed in the private sector long ago lost the pensions that the Union holds sacred. What makes you more special than the people who go to work every day to pay your salaries? What makes you more special than the people who will work into their 70s so that you can retire in your 50s? Everyone in Lake Forest isn't a millionaire CEO. I live in a house that is very modest. I earn a salary that is lower than the highest paid teachers, I have a masters degree and I am recognized as a leader in my field. Were I to walk out because I wanted 6% instead of 3% in this economy it would be career suicide. How about being fair? I am sure teachers try to impart this concept into our children. On that topic, perhaps you could explain what is unfair about a 3% raise over and above the guaranteed lane change that you get. How is this unfair and unjust? Virtually all employers long ago dispensed with Cadillac health plans and require employees to cover at least 25% of the premiums. What makes teachers so special that they should have different rules?

We always hear the arguments that teachers don't have the upside of the private sector but they also don't have the downside of the public sector. Teachers say that if the private sector wants their benefits they should have become teachers. If we turn that around, we can say the same thing. If the teachers wanted private sector salaries, they should have gone into the private sector. A bit of fairness and honesty on the part of the Union would go a long way.

Yep, kiss my ring and you can get your letter.  Guess what Ralph, taxpayers do pay your salary and you should attend to their needs.  Ralph's attitude is a perfect example of what's wrong with education today. ... Higher ed, he said, was an elaborate scheme to deprive young people of their freedom of thought. He compared four years of college to a lab experiment in which a rat is trained to pull a lever for a pellet of food. A student recites some bit of received and unexamined wisdom—“Thomas Jefferson: slave owner, adulterer, pull the lever”—and is rewarded with his pellet: a grade, a degree, and ultimately a lifelong membership in a tribe of people educated to see the world in the same way.

Thanks to everybody for your lively discussion over this important story! Try to avoid turning to personal attacks, however, and let's keep it focused on the issue at hand. I'm posting our Terms of Use here, so please review it if you have any questions. http://lakeforest.patch.com/terms

Thanks for reading Patch!

@Gary not bad for a part time job. 15 weeks off a year, 12 paid holidays and who knows how many sick days.

@can't we all just get along. In fact, it was in the IHSA's control. The language of their ruling includes specific reference to 'school not in session due to labor dispute' which implies if school were not in session due to other reason - mechanical or electrical - that they would allow play. So the conclusion is clear - the IHSA is in the Union's back pocket. Talk about hypocrisy - they claim to protect the student athlete as part of their mission! But that 'protection' stops at the Union's door where they deliver our children - competing athletes - to be sacrificed for the Union's greed.

They are reopening schools on Monday and seeking legal advice about hiring permanent replacement workers. That should not be too difficult because the 1938 1938 NLRB v. Mackay Supreme Court decision says that they can and they cannot be forced to fire the replacement workers when the strikers finally want to come back. IF there is a position available for them, that MIGHT be an option.

It might not be easy to replace 150 teachers, but I have a strong feeling that not all of the teachers wan to stay out and will come back, and once they start replacing teachers, others will come back as well. I would also take a guess that the board may start hiring the replacement teachers in core subject areas, such as math.

I really want to believe there are some good teachers out there that are just trapped by arrogance of their union leadership.

Yes, but it is the TEACHERS that put the students in the path of the IHSA ruling - unless you blame the board for not caving to all of the teachers demands.

Delete
Lf parent
8:02 am on Saturday, September 15, 2012
@can't we all just get along. In fact, it was in the IHSA's control. The language of their ruling includes specific reference to 'school not in session due to labor dispute' which implies if school were not in session due to other reason - mechanical or electrical - that they would allow play. So the conclusion is clear - the IHSA is in the Union's back pocket. Talk about hypocrisy - they claim to protect the student athlete as part of their mission! But that 'protection' stops at the Union's door where they deliver our children - competing athletes - to be sacrificed for the Union's greed.

Answer: NO.

LOL! Yes Ma'am. My daughter is one of the tutors making a lot of money off these high school students!!

Tutors are a reality all over the north shore. A neighbor whose kids went to private school said they wished they'd saved the tuition, gone to public school and hired tutors. And perhaps it's always math because so many used the Everyday Math curriculum in elementary school, and high school math curriculae are not designed to have that as the foundation.

Note, however, that students can always meet with their teachers for assistance. My son did so on a regular basis at LFHS, and it worked for him.

@Bar - the problem is, the "teaching establishment" is what pushed that "everyday" math. Try being a parent and being told "you just don't understand".

Will someone with kids in these programs confirm what I heard from a LFHS student yesterday, and that is that the girls' hockey team is no longer on an undefeated streak because they had to forfeit two games because of the strike? That college coaches or their scouts are scouting this weekend only for certain boys and girls teams, and that no games or matches are being played? That some of the kids from our community will lose the chance to compete for athletic scholarships because the scouts or coaches wont see them play because of this strike? And what about all the unsupervised teens running around town or getting into mischief at home while their parents, who are thankful to have jobs even though they haven't gotten their step raises in years, are at work? The consequences of this strike aren't going to last a few days. . .

I agree, how can we organize and show support for the board. There are many brilliant teachers out there that would love to be here. My friends are teachers in Madison, WI., they make 40k a year, by the "Former Scout" comment above these teacher must be just plain dumb as they aren't getting paid the 125k these teachers need to get to scrape by.

Hi Jen! I'll look into some of those questions for you. One thing I can confirm right now is that no games are being played as long as the teachers are on strike, per the state high school league rules. The games that are not played will be a forfeit. It's really difficult to tell for sure if scouts would have been at the games that were missed, however.

@Jen - the games the kids don't play are considered "forfeit" by the team that is not able to play. The "winning" team is allowed to play another team during this slot, but it will not count towards their record.

Regarding the scouts, they have schedules for which schools they plan to observe. If the choose to reschedule or not is up to them. That being said, it would seem that Yes, the LF kids can / will lose out on scholarships due to the strike.

Wow, you obviously never attended LFHS because your opinoins are so miscontrued. These "average" teachers have made LFHS into one of the best schools in the state and they should be paid accordingly. Bringing in "scab" teachers would result in cheating our students of the education that so many former students have benefited from. What I'm sensing here is jealousy amongst the LF parents because of these teachers salaries. Newsflash, when you are the best at what you do, you are supposed to get paid accordingly. And that's exactly what these teachers are, some of the best in the state

@Former Scout: I can't stop laughing...so pray tell, what exactly qualifies someone to be the best gym teacher in the state? ...besides the 160k salary.

They can certainly afford to live in the community! But these teachers need to get a clue, you don't need to be a teacher from "Duke, Harvard" or whatever other schools they bragged about in that meanless video, to understand that they are in the wrong. 97% of LF LB Kwood disagree with them. Wake up teachers, and the fact that they see nothing wrong with 97% disagreeing with them is whats wrong with teachers and their unions

StevieJanowski: I too was struck by the awkwardness of the video. If, in defending my worth to my employer, I feel the need to mention the name of my prestigious alma mater, I am admitting that my degree is worth more than I am.
Reminds me of a funny story:
A Harvard guy is sitting next to an average Joe on an airline flight. After the inflight meals are served, the Harvard guy notices the average Joe doesn't put a napkin on his lap before he begins eating his meal. So the Harvard guy says to the average Joe, in a very high-brow, Hah-vahd affectation, "You know my dear fellow, in my younger days at my highly elite university, I was taught the importance of putting one's napkin on one's lap prior to dining." The average Joe says, "Hmmm. I bet you attended Harvard." The Harvard guy, amazed that the buffoon has correctly guessed his alma mater, replies, "That's remarkable! How did you know?" The average Joe replies, "I saw your Harvard ring every time you picked your nose."

Way to suck up for the A, good job kid. Let me know when you pay taxes, then tell me who you support

of course you do! Now let's hear from you in about 15 years when it's your turn to pay for those teachers' pensions.

Can you please edit your comments...so that they're somewhat comprehensible.

But John, they are "professionals"....

You know, I honestly have to believe that there are a portion of the teachers that realize they have a good deal and would be willing to come back for the 3%, but their union leadership has threatened them and forced open votes. Why is it that unions cannot respect the privacy of voting?

@Ralph - the teachers are not ACTING like professionals - that is the problem. PROFESSIONALS would recognize that the economics have changed. They would recognize that the teachers here in LF already have a sweet deal and to try and claw back the "freeze" the SUPPOSEDLY took is not right. They would recognize that $106,000 + 3% GUARANTEED for the next 3 years PLUS a sweetheart pension is a GREAT deal for working 9-10 months a year plus being able to buy off another year of "work" with unused sick leave. They would realize that paying a mere 10% for the Cadillac healthcare they have is FAIR to the taxpayers. They should realize their Cadillac insurance is going to cost the district more in PENALTIES under the new ACA (unless the teachers are going to eat that cost?).

The teachers are acting somewhere between petulant children who must have their everything their own way and old-style teamster thugs.

I hear you, RationalTht, even if we're not in agreement on some of these points. I deliberately avoided the terms of the contract in order to point out that the teachers are not being treated, in many of these comments, in a way befitting persons who've been entrusted with the education of our children. I want to see a settlement as much as anyone, and I hope it can be reached without continued animus being directed at the men and women who are teaching our kids.

Love your true story. In fact, for 20 years when my husband was in sales, the competition couldn't sway his clients to switch products or services, and they tried everything. The deepest of discounts had no affect... they couldn't understand that customer service and a deep commitment to customer satisfaction was far more important than all else... his clients had total trust in him!

Brilliant and true and if there is any silver lining for any kid reading these posts, it's this one. But Gary, you just opened a Pandora's box. One word: vouchers.

Our assessment came in at $120K over our refi appraisal, an that is not on a million dollar house either.

Your assessment is the inverse of the actual tax rate. Assessment down, tax rate up. Assessment up, tax rate down. The district will get the amount of money they levy regardless of the assessment. Raise the levy = tax increase. It's that simple.

When you protest your taxes, you are just paying less of the fair share and shifting that burden to those who don't protest theirs. I have a presentation that I'd be happy to come present in the area that shows how the property tax system works. If you would like to setup a meeting at the library I'll be there to present it to anyone that is interested.

@Bruce, as I stated before, protesting your taxes just shifts the burden you the non-protesters. It does NOT lower the tax money going to the district. That is based on the levy. Assessments only spread the levy (tax) around.

Protesting your assessment is only helps you personally. Stop raising the levy affects everyone and stops the tax increases.

http://educationmatters.us/2008/04/15/go-ahead-blame-the-assessor-but-youd-be-wrong/ gives you a little of what i show in my presentation.

Property Tax Formulae

Tax Rate = (Levy/District EAV) * 100
Tax Bill = (Property Assessment * Tax Rate) / 100
Note: The following scenarios are based on a jurisdiction that has two identical homes each initially valued at $5,000.

Scenario 1 = The taxing body levies $500
District EAV = $5,000 * 2 = $10,000
Tax Rate = (500/10,000) * 100 = $5.00 per $100 EAV
Tax Bill = (5000 * 5) / 100 = $250 for each home

Scenario 2 = The taxing body levies $550 (10% increase) while no change in assessment is made
District EAV = $5,000 * 2 = $10,000
Tax Rate = (550/10,000) * 100 = $5.50 per $100 EAV
Tax Bill = (5000 * 5.5) / 100 = $275 for each home (10% levy increase resulted in a 10% tax bill increase)

Scenario 3 = The taxing body levies $550 (10% increase) while assessment increases by 10%
District EAV = $5,500 * 2 = $11,000
Tax Rate = (550/11,000) * 100 = $5.00 per $100 EAV
Tax Bill = (5500 * 5) / 100 = $275 for each home (10% levy increase and a 10% assessment increase result in a 10% tax bill increase)
So which caused the increase, the levy increase of the assessment increase. See scenario 2 and scenario 4 for the answer that the levy is the real culprit not the assessment.
Scenario 4 = The taxing body levies $500 (0% increase) while assessment is increased 10%
District EAV = $5,500 * 2 = $11,000
Tax Rate = (500/11,000) * 100 = $4.55 per $100 EAV
Tax Bill = (5500 * 4.55) / 100 = $250 for each home (0% levy increase and 10% in assessment leaves tax bill unchanged as scenario 1)
Why did this happen? Simple, the increase in the assessment lowered the tax rate which meant taxes remain the same. So, the levy increase causes the tax increase not the assessment.
Let’s look at one more example to again show everyone that the tax levies cause the increase, not the assessment.
Scenario 5 = The taxing body levies $517.50 (3.5% increase) while assessment is decreased 10%
District EAV = $4,500 * 2 = $9,000
Tax Rate = (517.5/9,000) * 100 = $5.75 per $100 EAV
Tax Bill = (4500 * 5.75) / 100 = $258.75 for each home (3.5% levy increase and 10% assessment decrease still causes a tax increase)

To support the BOE, you need to email and call them. You may also want to think about getting some parents to protest the strike and hold town halls meetings to inform others. I'll be happy to help if you need it.