Thank you Steve for answering my question . I want to have facts since it is not in my knowledge base where we stand compared to other "Like" schools. The nation is in an education crisis in my view, however we are also in financial reorganization and all facts must be revealed and community needs to be informed. Appreciate that you took the time to research this vital information!

Awww. Poor employees need to pay 13% into pension plan. In return, they get a guaranteed defined benefit. I Pay in a similar amount and get back only what I paid in plus a 4% employer "match". Before you start whining, you really need to look at what is happening in the real world.

Once again you do not provide the full story. When you post the average salary of teachers that is based on the teachers years of experience. Therefore if you post the average salary of teachers at Lake Forest and it appears high, that is because a large majority of the teachers are at the top of the pay scale. They have several advanced degrees and they have been teaching for over 20 years. So if we are going to look at the other schools we need to see how many years of experience and degrees those averages are based on. In two years there will be a large number of teachers retiring from Lake Forest High School. When new teachers replace them their salaries will be significantly lower since they will have less experience and less degrees. So, in two years if you look at the average salary of the teachers at Lake Forest it will look significantly lower than the other schools. If we are going to play this type of game than in two years when the average salary drops significantly at Lake Forest because many veteran teachers retire then are you going to publish something like this so the teachers can claim their salaries are so much lower than the surrounding districts. IF YOU ARE GOING TO PRINT THE TRUE FACTS THAN PRINT THEM. List the salaries of the teachers with the years of experience and degrees. To compare an average is nothing more than propoganda again!

If you want the truth readers it is simple. Print the pay scales for the comparable schools not what teachers are making at each school. One of the schools could have a lot of new teachers only making $50,000 while the other school could have a lot of veteran teachers making six figures. And it isn't unreasonable for somebody who has a PHD and twenty years of experience to make that type of money. It seems pretty simple to me. Compare the pay scales for each of the surrounding schools not what teachers make at each school. The only way that those figure would be accurate would be if each of the schools has teachers with the exact same years of experience and degrees. This is the big problem. The public doesn't understand the pay scales rather simply responds to average salaries. I guess in two years when Lake Forest has a large number of new teachers due to retirements and the average salary drops significantly then the Patch will post those figures and argue that the teachers at Lake Forest don't make enough money.

I see from the two previous posts that the teachers have fired up the propaganda machine in an attempt to justify salaries. True, comparing average salaries can sometimes skew the picture. However, I am not looking at that statistic. What I am looking at is the overall pay package that the school system has and questioning whether we are getting a reasonable value for what we spend.

In the private sector we are paid for performance and not for tenure. There is no such thing as a guaranteed job or a guaranteed raise. Also, in the private sector, the idea that you can put in your 20 years and then retire with a pension that is a percentage of your final salary (don't get me started on the tricks that are played to boost the final salary) has long since past. We are all living in the world of a 401k where you get out only what you pay in and if you are lucky, your employer matches a portion of it.

It is not just the teachers. Look at the bloated salaries that that the administration receives. Does the superintendent really need to knock down almost $300k to oversee such a small district?

Once the teachers and administration understands that their compensation needs to be in line with that of the taxpayer (who by the way pays the salaries) relations will become far less strained.

What is the academic rank of the District and how does that relate to pay rate for teachers and administrators? Some of the lower paid districts listed in the article are usually ranked higher than Lake Forest.

I think the teachers should teach. Arguing about a percent or two when you are talking about massive salaries to begin with seems a bit greedy. Particularly when you consider the long paid vacations, retirement, medical insurance, and other benefits they get throughout the year.

Taxes can not keep going up indefinitely for the rest of us.

Open the discussion to what Lake Forest Elementary School teachers make, compared to neighboring districts. By the way, curmudgeons who badmouth teachers obviously don't have children in the district. We teachers work unbelievably hard (and work all summer at it!) to get our children to achieve at high levels, and become productive, contributing members of society. Teachers are NOT the bad guys. Not sure when the need to attack them began. Pity.

To the teachers who feel you are underpaid, you are free to shop your talents elsewhere and attempt to find a district that will pay you more. The LF tax payers are offering you fair and competative salaries for your services. If its not enough for you, nobody is keeping you here. There are other teachers who would be glad to have your jobs. This is how the free market operates outside the fantasy world of public employee unions. You are not "entitled" to anything.

Our property values are directly linked to the quality of education at Lake Forest High School. If surrounding school districts pay their teachers more and treat them with greater respect, they will attract the highest caliber teachers. We pay taxes for education regardless of teacher salaries. I want my required tax money go to teacher salaries. It seems like a good investment. If we treat our teachers like they are worthless, they will leave. If our educational system deteriorates, so do our property values. People will choose to live in the New Trier, Highland Park, Stevenson school districts instead of LF so they can give their children the best education around.

Did someone just bring the median household income of all of Illinois into the discussion? It may be pertinent if someone teaches at LFHS and lives in Springfield, but at least bring in the median of a local suburb, say Libertyville, where several teachers I know live, where the median income is $100, 048 (http://www.city-data.com/city/Libertyville-Illinois.html) or if a teacher is fortunate enough to live in Lake Forest where the median is $145,535 (http://www.city-data.com/city/Lake-Forest-Illinois.html). It's hardly fair to anyone to bring the entire state into this discussion unless you are willing to disclose your salary and benefits package so others can tell you that you should feel happy about it because it's 3 times the state median. I agree with "TheRealStory" in that the way to compare is in printing pay scales, not average salaries and not state medians. Patch, see if you can get a hold of those.

My kids are in the schools here and we really do love our teachers (most of them anyway). However, we also feel betrayed when the teachers are demanding more when many of the taxpayers are making less.

Last year the teachers took a pay freeze. That doesn't seem greedy to me. I look forward to getting the real story when the 2 offers are made public. Maybe I am cynical but I don't believe any politicians these days, especially school board members. However, I do believe in the strength of the education my kids have received here. That isn't possible without the teachers.
Steve Sadin, I would also like to see a comparison of pay scales. Average pay tells little except that we have older teachers.

They are unpaid but they most certainly are politicians.

I'd be happy to support paying excellent teachers top dollar even in this bad economy and in spite of the perks of working in the public sector vs. what most of us experience in the private sector. But the one perk I can't swallow is the tenure system that protects and even rewards incompetent, lazy and sometimes outright mean teachers. It is frustrating to discover that everyone knows who they are and there isn't a thing anyone can do about it. To add insult to injury, too often these bad apples are raking in the six-figure salaries while many of the truly amazing teachers earn far less. How about a contract that generously rewards individual excellence but lets us weed out the poor performers?

LF Teachers compensation (salary and benefits such as health insurance) should be competitive with other high achieving districts. This does not equate to being the top paying district. If the district is losing teachers to other districts due to compensation that would be of concern. But nothing I have heard would indicate that is the case or that the district has any trouble recruiting new teachers.

There is something known as the "Lake Wobegon Effect". This is where everyone strives to be highest (or at least above average). The result is a mutually destructive arms race. Always striving to be the highest paying district is doing nothing more than continually raising the pay bar to unsustainable levels.

Fair pay rates are just that, fair. If the pay that is offered s not fair then the teachers are encouraged to find a district where the pay is more fair. We don't want to keep them here if they are not happy. However, if the choose to leave, I am certain that there are any number of highly qualified candidates who would seek their jobs.

@Joe, two veteran teachers who where both percevied as excellent by students and parents have left the school this year. One took a job at Highland Park after teaching at LF for a good twenty years. Its only the beginning. And most of you need not worry as there will be a mass exit of teachers in 2014 due to retirements. Then a large number of veteran teachers will be replaced with low salaried new teachers. So the next time you publish average stats in terms of pay Lake Forest will look under paid. I wonder what the montra will be then? Hopefully I won't be hear to listen to it. Why continue to work night and day supporting students and parents and trying to be the best you can while the community spends time degrading you by talking about how worthless, greedy, and lazy you are.

@reallysad, This really is sad. I hope you don't mean what you seem to say. Our community is extraordinarily supportive of our schools and teachers. Parents have contributed thousands of hours of volunteer time and many have contributed generously to the APT and Foundations, which in turn support teachers by doing everything from satisfying teachers' grant wish lists to helping out in the library to providing dinners on conference nights, and on and on. And we do that happily because we care.

But why can't the union understand how much we are hurting out here? Our home values and savings are plummeting. Those with kids heading to college can't sleep at night because of skyrocketing tuition-stuck in the middle we have zero hope of financial aid. On top of that, few of us have the type of job security that tenure provides. Did you see how 700 local Motorola jobs just evaporated in a blink of an eye? In this environment, many would be thrilled to have tenure plus a 3% pay increase! Yet, when we support the push back on the union's demand for more, we learn that we are degrading you! That is completely unfair.

Sorry, but looking at it from this end, the union IS greedy. And, feeling angry about this, it does cause me as a parent to focus on the handful of teachers that my kids have had recently who really were lazy and truly awful (and sorry to say, all but one was a "veteran" teacher). Unfair to the majority who are really good, perhaps, but what do you expect?

@sad - You seem to be putting words in our mouths. No one called you worthless and lazy. We have gone to great pains to express how much many of us appreciate many of you. However, just as there are a few mouthy taxpayers who choose to unfairly denigrate you, there are some bad egg teachers who need to be drummed out.

I am with Nancy on the greedy part. Or perhaps, out of touch with reality is another way of putting it. When you are already among the highest paid in the state if not the country, a demand for automatic raises that are well above the inflation rate is going to fall on deaf ears. In the private sector, once you are near the top of your pay range, raises are almost always linked to performance and nothing is automatic.

We do love our schools that is one of the reasons we live here. However we also are appalled by the greed of the system from administration down through the teaching ranks. We are not saying that you should be the lowest paid teachers and that you should be thankful that we allow you the honor of teaching our kids. We are saying that your salary increases and pension plans are rapidly outstripping our ability to fund the system.

We do want our teachers to be happy and that is why we give and we do. If you don't want to be hear (sic.) to listen to it I do suggest that you seek employment elsewhere. Perhaps a foray into the private sector would be an eye opener for you.

I am very tired of our teachers demanding much more than they are worth. If you are unhappy, please find work elsewhere. I am also tired of the teachers pretending they are the Lake Forest Education Association. This sounds cute. They are really part of a very self serving union. Lake Forest teachers are represented by their union, the SEIU, one of the most hard-ball bully unions, but try to hide that fact by calling themselves the LFEA!

http://gazebonews.com/2012/08/17/what-lake-forest-teachers-want-lfea-issues-statement/

research pay here:
http://www.isbe.net/research/htmls/salary_report.htm

We have three kids - two of which have gone through the Lake Forest school systems and one that is in a local private high school. We have both volunteered hundreds of hours and have been low-maintenance parents. While it is true that we have had good teachers over the years - we have also had the ones that were worthless. The tenure PLUS union protection programs are not of benefit to those good teachers. Frankly, if I were a strong teacher, the last thing I would want to be a part of is a system that protects lousy colleagues. Until we have a system that is a pay for performance one that is routine in the private sector - I really can't support these high wages. I realize that the top performers are worth their weight in gold - but the bad teachers (and there are many!) are a problem for everyone.

I am a resident of Lake Forest, a parent, and a former teacher. Perhaps you are asking the wrong question. Instead let us consider: Do LFHS students receive a higher quality of education than neighboring schools, due to the abilities of our teachers? Unfortunately, no they do not. It's time to put our students foremost in this conversation.

Unions bargain for their members equally; this alone is a conflict of interest if the best quality education for our children is in question. Try to fire a tenured teacher who verbally abuses, bullies, or does not perform her/his duties. It just won't happen. Who is paying the price then? I am against the idea of automatic pay increases based on continuing education and tenure. It's a ridiculous premise for a raise.

Don't be fooled into believing that our current teachers are the only qualified individuals with the ability to teach bright eager teenagers, the majority of whom care about their educations; not to mention that their well educated parents would do anything to help them achieve. Intelligent, enthusiastic, and collaborative educators who care about classroom effectiveness will not be difficult to hire if merit pay linked to performance replaced the current model.

Perhaps District 115 should welcome a strike while working on recruiting and retaining top teachers who choose not to compromise the profession and the education of our children by paying dues for protection.

I think the teachers are asking too much. 5 teachers are retiring next year and they cite to relatively low starting pay, but the fact remains that 80% of them are getting paid over $90,000 per year with a benefits package that is worth at least $40,000. and they work part time. The fact that teacher's pay will only comprise 25% of the expenses is a good start; however, that just shows the taxpayers that we need to trim administration positions and expenses. Bottom line: take a strike.

I can't agree more with what Another Point said. Each of my kids has been bullied by a teacher in recent years and it turns out that the contract is written in such a way that there is zero that can be done to remove a bad apple from the classroom or to even discipline them. They pretty much have to commit a felony to be ousted! Verbal abuse and blatant failure to teach isn't enough.

And to make matters worse, since there is nothing that can be done, most parents soon learn to stay silent because if you file a complaint your kid is likely to suffer retaliation from not only the teacher but the teacher's department head and in some cases sympathetic colleagues. How sad is it to have to advise your kid to keep their head down and take it? Truly, I would be happy to pay teachers more if at the same time we get a contract that allows us to clean house and that rewards excellence vs. time served.

Lets call their bluff. I think that the taxpayers would welcome a strike. Lets hope that the School Board will develop some backbone when none has existed in the past.

What is the District doing to prepare for a strike? Are they recruiting replacements? There is a lot of talent that would love to teach in LF and would find the compensation and FREE HMO health insurance very attractive..

Im sorry I really don't mean to be rude but I can not help but laugh after reading Gary's comment. This is obviously a man who knows nothing about dealing with teenagers or teaching. I say call his bluff! But make sure you video record it for real time tv. Yea, and he is going to keep a gym full of teenagers actively engaged and attentive to his lessons on econmics and social studies. I am sure that everyone will be sitting attentively in their seats and cooperating with him just because he knows everything. Don't forget to write the hundreds of letters of rec while you are at it and grade the hundreds of papers that you will assign. Not to mention deal with the parents when they complain what a terrible teacher you are because you can't handle the hundreds of students you are working with who find you to be boring and mean since you can't control the large group. Please, you only show how clueless you are when you make comments like that. I'm amused by the ignorance. Doesn't mean I am in favor or not in favor of pay increases and what is being discussed. I just think if people want their opinion to be respected they need to stay focused on reality! Otherwise those reading this will write off what is being said as nuts.

Hey Laughingoutloud,
A study from the Dept of Education just came out that found class size is not the holy grail that it has been pushed as. It's main purpose has been to create more teacher positions. Further you write hundreds of letters of rec? On average, LFHS graduates about 425 seniors per year--you are implying that you write letters of rec for over half the student body--too funny! I suggest you create a template and reuse as is fitting. Also, I have found that LFHS students are highly motivated and would do well in an auditorium type setting as they will face in many classes during their first two years of college if they attend a large university such as U of I. Finally, try not to belittle other posters--it only shows your weakness!