So who is to blame? Nice job of not blaming anyone.

The blame does not belong to one specific person. It belongs to many people.
Part belongs to the voters of Illinois. Part belongs to teachers for being unrealistic. Part belongs to the state for not taking care of this problem before. Part belomngs to Blago. Part belongs to Chicago's former mayor. The list goes on.

What ever happened to "pay me a little now but pay me for the rest of my life after I retire" attitude of public service workers.

Entitlement mentality!

The pensions for government workers are as bloated as their salaries and benefits.
Cut em all out PATCO style, there are plenty of people willing to do a better job at a lower price.
Do we need IDiOT digging up the same roads over and over again? Ten guys holding up shovels (and traffic) for $40.00 an hour?
Illinois is on the fast track to bankruptcy and AFSCME is the engine.

Madigan must go.....

Find someone who knows how to put together a survey with relevant choices if you're going to frame the question like this.

Great daughter, but the father is a crook -- Madigan must go, leave, goodbye, and stop running Illinios. Leaveit the entire State Senate, not his majestical whims!

Before touching the pensions, let stop giving illegals free services at tax payers expense. free hospital care I 'm sure is costing tax payers $$$millions every year. free schooling for illegal kids---welfare---food stamps...no one wants to touch that .lets go after the American citizens and leave the illegals be..

why not pass a law that will force any business that hired illegals to pay for their medical bills ??? I'm all for that.

The illegal immigration issue is a very big cost to be sure, but it still pales in comparison to these huge entitlements afforded to government workers.
Unfortunately, the same dirty politics, cronyism, open borders, bureaucratic mess and shame of American values that has destroyed Illinois is now running the entire country into the ground as well.
Look how well the liberal plan has worked in Chicago? More people killed on a weekly basis than in Iraq and Afganistan combined. Three thousand cops short but they're still planting trees. Now the teachers are going to strike? Illinois ranks at the bottom in testing, but teachers want more money? There are rats as big as dogs roaming through the alleys, West Nile and Legionaires disease is running rampant and this is in Chicago, not Zimbabwe.

The illegal immigration issue is a very big cost to be sure, but it still pales in comparison to these huge entitlements afforded to government workers.
Unfortunately, the same dirty politics, cronyism, open borders, bureaucratic mess and shame of American values that has destroyed Illinois is now running the entire country into the ground as well.
Look how well the liberal plan has worked in Chicago? More people killed on a weekly basis than in Iraq and Afganistan combined. Three thousand cops short but they're still planting trees. Now the teachers are going to strike? Illinois ranks at the bottom in testing, but teachers want more money? There are rats as big as dogs roaming through the alleys, West Nile and Legionaires disease is running rampant and this is in Chicago, not Zimbabwe.

I'd have to blame the voters in Illinois. Electing Quinn after the previous guy is jailed, after knowing the state is one of the worst in the US in debt, after knowing the crooks like Madigan rule in Springfield, after knowing Quinn is bought and sold by the teacher's unions.

Obviously we are in trouble for many different reasons, illegals, Madigan, an assortment of really bad leadership, poor choices at the polls, politicians not willing to make the unpopular choices because they are more worried about being re elected than doing what's right (nationwide problem) because of the huge pension, benefits and kick backs....in my opinion another BIG problem is the budget system....from local to county to state....without exclusion...they all just add spending to the last budget. I would venture to guess without exception every city, county and state could easily trim 20+% off of their budget by starting at 0 and renegotiating contracts, getting rid of obsolete programs and trimming the fat. Their are too many government programs that are obsolete, too many government employees and just too much spending in general.
I have a relative that holds and elected office in IL., she was reprimanded for trimming her budget because it effected the state aid the the county received.
You can't run your house that way, you can't run a business that way....you can't run a city, county, state or country that way.
Let's see budget reform, ground up or 0 start budgets every 8 years for every government entity. Let's see 2 term limits for all government offices. Let's see reduced salaries for elected officials and pensions for the cut in half. It should be a bonus for their service, not a life of leisure.
Reform is not easy, but the result would be fantastic.

Governor Quinn, not unlike President Obama, prefers to put the blame on Republicans rather than on his own failed leadership and failed policies.

Although there is enough blame to go around — Democrats want to avoid angering their union base while Republicans seek to capitalize on the inaction — Democrats and Republican alike put the blame on what is called a “catastrophic failure” of leadership by Governor Quinn.

For months Governor Quinn has called on lawmakers to pass a comprehensive plan to put in place to put in place pension changes for workers across the board, but was Quinn really serious?

Illinois legislators, knowing that pensions cannot be sustained, but unable to do anything about it, continue to receive little help from Governor Quinn due to his lack of leadership. For like a rudderless ship, disaster and catastrophic financial failure looms for state and local government unless there is a dramatic reform on the structure, incentives and accountability within the five government retirement systems.

Not to do so represents a dereliction of duty to the people of Illinois by both Gov. Quinn and the Illinois General Assembly.

Enough with the bamboozle tactics of phony reform! Real reform is called for as Illinois is facing a financial Armageddon.

This election year every seat in the Illinois House and Senate is open. Voting for a Democrat in the house is the same as voting for Madigan. The Republicans need 6 more seats to oust Madigan as the Speaker. Mark Shaw in the 58th district is the Republican candidate running for the seat Karen May held. Jonathan Greenberg in the 57th district is the Republican candidate running for the seat against Elaine Nekritz, a pension committee member. She has not done very much to alleviate a terrible situation. Dr. Arie Friedman, a Republican is running for the Senate seat now held by Susan Garrett who is retiring from the 30th Senate district.

The district lines have changed. Do you know your House and Senate districts? These are good people and we have a great chance to make something different happen in Springfield this election. Please vote!

WE THE PEOPLE in Illinois need to blame ourselves for not being more proactive, and for staying silent, while some special interest groups make key decisions about how to continuously expand their constitutionally protected privileges.

The real cost of public retirees in Illinois is now $203 BILLION and counting!
(See Report by Illinois Policy Institute)

Follow the discussion in "Smart Skokie Forum" :
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Smart-Skokie-Forum-Dr-Liliana-Fargo/219231194763848

12 other states with Republican leadership have made the difficult decisions in the midst of some nasty opposition, and enjoy better fiscal futures. Quinn went the other way with his fiscal policy and the easy way for pension reform, while all sizes of business leave the state, unless the king grants some exceptions to higher taxes. Is this survey really necessary?

the problems start with the teachers and the state employees. They continue to get raises while the taxpayer continues to see his taxes go up and up and up. My district, d230, off all summer, off every holiday, breaks on christmas and easter, curriculums that have nothing to do with math, english, science and english, just got another 4 year contract, COLECTIVELY BARGAINED between the union and the district board(all ex teachers and administrators of schools)and they get a 4% cost of living increase. So it is not all the politicians faults. When you have greedy people that forgot who pays their salaries and are allowed to get a raise with no proof of doing anything is where the problem starts and ends. we have pincipals making $130,000 a year. In the grammer school district, d140 we have principals making 115,000, 120,000, 122,000. Why should any of these people make this kind of money and then get pensions that pay 80% after they retire at 55. I added this up last year, 6 people, 5 principals and 2 administrators make about $800,000 a year to work 6 months. I always ask when I have to go to the schools my children attend what do they do to justify this money???? I never see them doing anything. We also have deans, and that is their only job, to be a dean, making $89,000 a year. It starts and ends with the greed that has become our teachers, who keep electing the same democratic leadership, so they can continue to get raises every time their contracts come up for renewal.

Easy solution just like rhode island. All pensions capped at median income for state. Done

Interesting fact about the “special session” last Friday - as you know the legislature was called to Springfield for a special session to vote on a “Pension Reform” bill. The Union bosses have been adamantly opposed to ALL pension reforms. To guarantee Madigan and Cullerton would not call a bill for us to vote on, the SEIU Union donated $97,000.00 to Madigan’s campaign…and $95,000.00 to Cullerto
n’s campaign on the very day, Friday, we were all in Springfield for a “special session”. No bills were called for a vote. Taxpayers paid 40k for the trip…while President Cullerton and Speaker Madigan raked in the campaign donations. Do you think this is “pay to play” politics, Chicago style, or just a miraculous coincidence?

The Illinois tax payer/voter is at fault. We have Superintendents of small town schools making 170,000 dollars a year plus pensions that they don't pay into.
Look at Illinois family tax payers site for more information. We have school boards who are cronies to the school administration staff and give away salaries and perks but we as voters don't vote them out. We don't vote out the County board members and we don't vote out the Dick Durbins who have established illinois as a Sanctuary State for illegal immigrants. We have plenty of Republicans in Illinois who are more Democrate than a Democrate. We have Jack Franks who is more Republican than the Republicans in the State so its not the party its the politician.
We have the Regional Superintendents of Schools who are such a layer of fat in Illinois. Its a politically filled position robing our children of education funds. Cook County elimanated the position years ago but not the suburbs. We need to take away the pensions of these positions from even those who have already retired.
Rick Santorum said it best: Public Schools are only out for the best intrest of public schools. When I started taking about all of these issues 5 years ago I was shunned by parents in my community.
THE PUBLIC IS TO BLAME FOR ILLINOIS PROBLEMS> APATHY is the biggest threat to our countys future.

This is ridiculous - Mike Madigan has been in office longer than I have been alive. He has overseen the growth and development of this boondoggle. You have people making over $400k a year in our pension system.

Something is really broke!

Respectfully,
Andrew Gasser
http://andrewgasser.com/2012/09/01/pension-reform-and-illinois/

One of the best things about the Patch is that they use polls and surveys (things which reflect OPINION) to address issues which are FACT-based.

Since we've already had polls like "Is global warming real?" and other such questions, I'm hoping that the next poll will be "What causes gravity?" Because while you'd think that the answer would be fairly clear cut, I won't know the real truth until some forum commentators shed some light on the issue.

Can someone explain to me why Dick Durbin keeps getting re-elected? His hands have signed off on every single spending bill for the last 20 years, yet never gets inquired about any of it.

Why is there no poll choice for Public Sector Unions? Between the teachers and the rest, that's what's put a strangehold on Illinois financs.

Permitting unions to collectively bargain for taxpayer funded benefits is such a bad idea that even FDR, burdgeoning socialist and hero to labor, said it was a terrible idea and should be avoided.

If you really want to make yourself sick, check out openthebooks.com It shows all the salaries of everyone in the state that is paid for by the tax payers. Be careful, it is very frightening!

Arguably, three of the "bluest" states, that also happen to enjoy some of the most electoral votes, CA, IL, & NY, also share some of the worst credit ratings, all in the bottom 25%, with Illinois and California fighting for dead last.
All three also share unemployment well over the national average, with CA & NY battling for top bragging rights there.
Conversely, the very lowest unemployment rates belong to very red states.
Notice any kind of pattern here?

Two years ago I ran for the school board. Prior to this I and our children were harrassed by both the Superintendent of schools for mchenry County and the local Superintendent because I was so vocal about reform and spent time trying to engage the public with information. It was awful.
The schools use tax payer money to harm parents and children and we the parents have to use our money on attorneys to protect ourselves. Our school board District 165 are all cronies to the administration but we can't get people out to vote and get rid of them. I blame the tax payer and voter. We have the power and we don't us eit.

Cullerton is the dem president of the State Senate, Mr. Urban

Here in Cary D26, we elected some bonehead for Parks and Rec who wants a new waterpark built. Sounds like a great idea when the kids are off school at noon they can slide down the Barney loop.

Serious consideration must be given to Police & Fire Pensions. If you visit the Springfield offices of our elected officials, you will see Fire Axes, Helmets and other freebies. The pensions provided to Police & Fire have continued to be expanded well beyond the original intentions. Many are not aware that the Villages are required to pay these increased entitlements handed down from Springfield, without any guidance from Springfield on how to actually pay for it. Interestingly enough, the definition of a duty disability pension makes absolutely no allowance for an injured Fire or Police officer to be able to be gainfully employed in another line of work. Certainly, the original intention was to provide for a dedicated servant who has been tragically injured. However, because there is someone always looking for loopholes, able bodied servants with a 'bad-back' now get 100% free health insurance for their entire family regardless of their economic ability to pay. I think we should follow social security laws which clearly indicate that retired means not working. No more retirement pay if you are not retired. Here's an interesting article or do your own search for PSEBA in Illinois. http://municipalminute.ancelglink.com/2012/02/supreme-court-adopts-new-test-for.html

I did see Madigan on T.V. a few weeks ago which i think was a in session clip stating we had to get rid of the School Board concept becuase they harm the community and the children by supporting huge salary increases and perks to the teachers and administration. Here in 165 public schools all difficult learning concepts are sent home for the parents to teach while the teachers spend their time feeding snacks, talking about President Obama, Homosexuality, Selling junk for prizes, Speaking Spanish and the rules of the school which are all designed to be difficult on the parents.

For the past 6 years I have been promoting School Choice for Illinois

Jim,

You make an excellant point about our Fire and Police officers who claim disability and are still allowed to work in another field while enjoying FULL pension benefits.

Many people don't know this.

The same holds true for Superintendents. They can retire get full benefits and then work in another District.

I honestly think a partial on all of these, BUT especially those in office and those able to manipulate their pensions: They have found ways and loopholes to double dip all over with pensions.

Interesting, no one here defends Madigan, not even a little bit, and yet, he's re-elected every single time. http://firemikemadigan.com/

The solution to the pension problem in Illinois is very simple. Leave the State of Illinois and the pension problem is no longer your problem. Problem solved.

And yes, I took my own advice. I am now a resident of the State of Florida. Governor Quinn and his merry band of Democrats won't have Richard Schulte to kick around any more.

BTW, the personal state income tax rate is Florida is 0 percent and the sales tax is 7.5 percent. The last time I got gasoline in the car a few days before Isaac, the price was $3.579/gallon. The cost of housing is about half the cost of housing in Evanston.

Who needs the thug government which runs the State of Illinois and Crook County?

The ASFCME and SEIU and the teachers' union colluding with the Democrat Party did this to Illinois. And when they all lose their pensions when Illinois declares bankruptcy, all I can say is oh well. You killed the goose that laid the golden eggs with your greed. You are getting what you deserve. To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, you did you know what to yourselves, even though that's not physically possible.

I only wish I could vote him out...

I have read all of the comments listed here and not one, like CW points out, can defend the acts of our politicians for the last 20 years. As the Republican Candidate for State Senate in District 9, I implore all of you who shared comments today to take your anger and frustration to your communities and make sure they vote Republican in this election. A vote for any Democrat this fall is definitely a vote for Madigan, and therefore a continued slide into oblivion for this state. My slogan for this campaign is "REPECT THE TAXPAYER", and we can only do this by voting in people with similar ideals. Please view my website at www.farkas4illinois.com and do your part this fall. Thank you.

Just to set the record straight, teachers work all year long. Yes, they get summers off, but many teachers use that time to plan for the school year, take additional coursework, and work at a job so that they can pay their bills. Teachers, even if they paid into Social Security for years, do NOT get that money. Yet the teachers (and their spouses) paid into the system for years. Also, teachers do NOT get 80% pensions. They pay almost 10% yearly into the pension system and, if they work over 35 years, can get fully vested at 75%. The average teacher pension in Illinois is around $44,000. Not exactly enough to buy a luxury car or even take a decent vacation. Don't confuse extravagant pensions that administrators receive with the rank and file teachers. Regarding teacher salaries: if a community wants quality educators in the classroom, which in turn keeps up property values, then they must ensure that the best teachers want to work in their district. The Superintendent of Burbank, IL, said recently to a question about why his district has the highest paid teachers, that well-paid teachers make for a stable school district. The top paid administrators will be on to other jobs in a few short years, but it's teachers who stay for decades, educating generation after generation of community children. Districts that pay and treat teachers poorly, will get teachers who will teach for a year or two, and then go on to districts where their talents and abilities are appreciated.

Richard:
Yes teachers, police, firemen etc all have their salaries posted. However, Kramer was talking about the average pension being $44K not the average salary being $44K.

My first year of teaching I made $8,000 because they had raised the base from $7200 to $8000. At that time I was paying in 10% to the pension system. After 11 years on the job I left to go into business. I withdrew the money that I had put in the retirement system. The state gave me 0 interest on the money they held for 11 years. And, for the ability to withdraw the money they said they would charge me 1%. Having gone to public school I thought that meant 1% of the total. Not so.

They took 1 of the 10 percentage points had I invested meaning I got $0 dollars in interest and I got 90% of my money back.

This is what they call a "rich" pension plan?

Many teachers work hard and long and go above and beyond. There are those that basically slide by doing as little as possible to feed at the trough and keep their jobs. The teachers union is complicit in this.

Clearly education is broken. Americans need to fix that. We are already sliding down the path to becoming a former super power. Arguing over who is to blame doesn't fix the problem.

All of these discussions should be around how we remedy the problem and mitigate the damage. Politicians won't do that for us. We need to do it ourselves.

Politicians are preventing us from doing it ourselves, as the money and power is taken from us and centrally located in Washington DC at the Dept of Education. Ideas such as charter schools, school choices, tax credits for private schools, vouchers are extinguished by the current President. His ideas result in more of the same, as his passion for teacher's unions grabs a good share of money and votes.

All those defending the teachers unions and such are being disengenuous, first the average pension may stand at 44K but that's not for real working, retireing teachers, that number is closer to 80K. My son had a wonderful grade school teacher, we liked her very much, she did a great job, she's roughly my age, around 50. When that website came out, where you can look up salaries and wages, we looked hers up, as well as a lot of others being paid in my town. They were all relatively obscene, but hers was over 96K a year, that's flippin nuts.

Why don't we have a choice about the public unions??? They are destroying the country, with Illinois leading the way. The teachers, administrators, public workers, etc., who we trust to run this State and teach our children are not all that smart or bright to expect the kind of money and pensions the unions have promised them. No wonder we rank so low in the world of smarts...

Hey, it is hard to toss the rascals out when Cook County keeps voting them in. Quinn won exactly two counties in the last election. Cook County was one and that kept the incompetent boob in office.

Time to get smart like the folks up in Wisconsin, elect people who have a vision and drive to execute their convictions like Scott Walker.

Now it is a right to receive high pay, full health insurance and a unsustainable pension. Why stop there, why not make it my right to have a home, a car, a flat screen, steak dinners on Friday nights. After all, it's my right.

Hey Mark Stein, in Wisconsin, everyone got to vote and voted to keep their Governor in. Look what is happening in States who have voted in new Governors, dealt with the corrupt Unions and have their budgets going in the right direction. Can't do that with the "takers" in corrupt Illinois. You have non retricted voting in Illinois...look at us!!! Disgusting!!!

The State made a deal with teachers, and now they want out of the deal. Only the powerful are allowed to get out of their deals. If unions were still powerful, they would not be in this position, and they would not have public opinion against them. This pension deal is just one of thousands of deals the State makes with contractors and other entities. Are we demanding that those deals be cancelled and renegotiated? Consider all of those other contracts, and you can see where the power and our 67% tax increase actually lies.

Mark Stein: No. I am a UniServ Director with the IEA and I have no problem saying so. I'm sitting at my home in the North suburbs and I am not commenting on behalf of anyone but myself. By the way, the IEA is a private sector employer. . . .It's a complete myth that your taxes go up due to what teachers recieve. What really happens is that school districts accumulate cash reserves that they just sit on or pay to someone else. They have all kinds of arguments for why that's a good thing, but don't think that it leads to lower taxes.

For example, North Shore School District 112 has 12.5 million dollars sitting in its working cash fund. They'll tell anyone who will listen that they're going broke."

Sure. And I'm the King of England.

Vote every single one of the incumbents out.

Then the State should declare bankruptcy and cancel the pension contracts.

Come back with an offer that what you put in, is what you're getting out + interest that floats at a rate commensurate with what a local bank offers. If you want more, take your money and put it in an IRA-like vehicle and invest it yourself, at your own risk.

Cap all State employee salaries - no one should make more than $100K/year.

I'm tired of paying School district superintendents $260K, PE teachers $160K, Teachers $120/140K, plus time off, plus sick day accruals, plus coaching fees, plus, plus, plus...

Enough is enough.

james urban: "richard i am trying but my house is UNSELLABLE and with the real estate taxes escalating who is going to want to buy it?On top of it all the low class minorities are starting to take over and soon tinley where i live will be just like harvey and robbins and markham and country club hills and dalton and riverdale etc etc and my home will be worth NOTHING."

My move to Florida was facilitated by a divorce and a foreclosure. The ex-wife got the one condo that was 100 percent paid for in Evanston and I got the condo with the big mortgage. I lost that condo to foreclosure in February 2012.

All things considered, I'd say I got the best of the deal-got rid of the wife and the mortgage. I'm impoverished, but I feel just like I was when I was 19 and starting out fresh. I've been sleeping on the floor for the last 5 months, but that's OK. I've got my health and that's all that really matters.

My advice is to follow in my footsteps-ditch the wife and the house. If you're a Republican/conservative come on down to Florida-the people are really nice and once they find out you're a Republican, they treat you like royalty. If you're a Democrat, please don't come to Florida and mess it up for the rest of us.

It's really hot and humid here in Florida during the summer, but that just means that the women don't where a lot of clothes. You'll get used to it-I mean the humidity.

Back when I started in the corporate world in 1983, they handed me a 401K brochure and told me my retirement is my responsibility. They also told me they'd meet me halfway on health insurance premium. After all the years at several different places, the benefits provided were much the same. Time to start handing out the 401K brochures and pony up for health insurance premiums, welcome to 1983 unions, glad to have you aboard.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wisconsin ranked 38th in job creation in 2011. Illinois ranked 29th. Again, why let the facts get in the way of the story you want to tell?

Mark Stein: "The "I'm a taxpayer" argument wears thin. Teachers and other public employees pay taxes too, They even pay property taxes."

There is a difference between private sector employees and public sector employees. Private sector employees have to work to collect a paycheck. With a few exceptions, public sector employees just collect a paycheck-that work thing is optional.

It's time to privatize the public education system. At present, government education is just a propaganda camp-re-education centers. Since the government education has been politicized, it has to be shut down.

That must explain why the unemployment rate in Wisconsin is 7.1% compared to Illinois at 9.5%. Are you grasping for straws with google?

That explains it. When you were in school all your teachers did was stare at the walls all day. I get it now.

Since deciding to run for public office a few months ago, I have researched the pension issue thoroughly. There is absolutely no way out of the mess the politicians (in collusion with the union leaders) have created without some combination of benefit cuts, extending the retirement ages, freezing the COLA and increasing participant contributions (pensions and health care). Starting all new employees on Defined Contribution Plans (401ks, 403bs) will eventually, over 20-30 years, end the pension shell game for good. The taxpaying public has no appetite for increasing taxes to make up losses in the pension funds. We all want good teachers/schools, but the current system in place must be radically changed. Does anyone think the Democratic Party, who receives the majority of its funding from the Unions, will make this happen? Vote Republican, and then start showing up at every school board and local village meeting and voice your displeasure. Vote in new school board members who understand how to do more with less. I started attending these last year and was shocked to find only a couple of citizens in the room. Voter apathy is a major factor in why we are in this current state of affairs.

Chris "Farley" "checking" "in", thanks.

That's easy.

I want to get and stay elected. I love the power and the money that comes secondarilly. You vote for me and I will give you goodies. Over 50 years, the mess is now here and cannot be fixed without the state losing its charter, becoming a federally administered territory, liquidating, getting its charter back, having a constitutional convention and starting over again with smarter voters and non-professional politicians. If you want a more philosophical answer, blame human nature and the inability to resist greed and power.

School Board members could care less what the public thinks. Half the time they break the law and with hold information from the public and do not hold mettings as they are supposed to do. If you voice your complaint they will go after your kids.
I have tried to get parents to organize to tackle the problem and I can't get them to take action. APATHY will be the end of this country. We have too many uneducated people who will not even vote.

But make no mistake we need to put a big fire under the ARSE of the Republican party in Illinois. They have made such a mess of the party that I blame them too.
We have Republicans who behave and vote as Liberals in Illinois and no one seems to hold them to the party lines. Thats why we can't get rid of Durbin..We have a weak Republican party in Illinois. I support Jack Franks because he is more of a Republican than Pam Altdorf.

Dick Durbin is the poster senator for all that is wrong with our government,. His hands have signed off on all of the spending for the last 20 years yielding us this massive debt and credit downgrade. yet there is not a single journalist out there who dares to ask him to explain himself. The last election after calling our soldiers nazis, he grabs a vet and shoots a commercial trying to appear supportive. He makes me cringe on sight.

An Obama popularity update from the swing state of Iowa:

"SIOUX CITY, Iowa — President Obama received a less than warm welcome and a warning upon arrival at the airport here on the second stop of his Iowa visit, which was aimed at recapturing some of the magic the state gave his run to the White House in 2008.

Greeting Air Force One as it touched down under sunny skies and sultry heat was a hand-painted banner draped across the top of an airplane hangar that reads, “Obama Welcome to SUX – We Did Build This.” “SUX” is the airport code for Sioux City."

What did I tell you about karma Just Sayin'. All across America, Americans despise Obama.

You sir are living proof of what bad Karma can do to a man.
Oh myopic one...King of England...All across America, Americans also love Obama. Your point is pointless.
R & R & U are dead in the water...Barack will win again. Can't wait to hear you wail.

BTW...I have been to Sioux City...and it does Sux...nothing but K-marts and people with extra limbs.

There it shows again, get a liberal talking and the superior being shows like a light. Just Sayin is superior than just about anyone in Sioux City, yet he champions the minority, because they could use the extra help. Without him and his liberal friends they are destined to misery. It makes him feel good that he does what he can. His genetics call him to action, just like Obama.

Here's another example of that superority. Bill Clinton on Obama: 'A Few Years Ago, This Guy Would Have Been Carrying Our Bags'

Group says it found 30,000 dead North Carolinians registered to vote.
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/09/02/3497857/group-says-it-found-30000-dead.html#storylink=cpy

Uh Oh, looks like those photo id loons are foiled again in NC.

You might want to include the whole story Mr. McCloud.
“Mainly, what we’re concerned about is the potential [for fraud],” said project director Jay DeLancy. “Since there is no voter ID law in North Carolina, anybody can walk in and claim to be anyone else.”
DeLancy said his group has found evidence to suggest voter fraud in these numbers, but will not quantify how much until he is able to do more analysis."

---Most cases of what look like a dead person voting are likely just administrative errors, such as a son named Junior voting in his father’s name instead of his own.---

Problems arise when the names on the death certificates do not match the names on the voting records, which often happens after women get married, Board of Elections General Counsel Don Wright said Friday. Addresses are also often listed with slight differences, Wright said. An address on West Millbrook Road and Millbrook Road might be the same house, but computers won’t always catch it. “Unless there is an exact match, we do not remove people from the voter rolls,” Wright said."

That doesn't sound like wide spread intentional voter fraud unless that's what you want it to look like already.

This is what is so great about elections. We all get stirred up every two years
keep sending the same people to do our bidding and expect things to change.
Nothing changes until we hit the bottom. And looking around it appears we have
a long way to go

Just Sayin. what is your real name? What are you hiding from?

You loons won't give up on this photo id thing. Sounds like you are aware of what's behind the curtain. My guess as to why you fight so hard against it has to do with Acorn faux names that allow white vans to bus people in and grab a ballot based on the roll. Pretty easy to see how a photo id would prevent it. The pimp guy already demonstrated the process when he was handed Eric Holder's ballot.

Hey how is that high speed rail project going that Dick Durbin supports? Once built we can transport the air from Chicago to St Louis in less than 2 hours. Did Dick get that tobacco chew for baseball players under control? Glad he's out to help.

Did the green job czar get his annual review? Lets see, no jobs against trillions spent, why not give him a satisfactory but may need improvement this year.

Remember the jobs summit early on, when everyone broke out into individual give and take sessions, then afterward Obama read from the CEO for Dummies book. Man that really paid off.

You know what we never hear about anymore? The thousands of waivers granted to "friendly" corporations where they could waive themselves out of the shackles (oops sorry Joe) of Obamacare.

Whatever happened to algae? I thought that was going to get this global energy crisis done.

Too bad we never hear from the secret service guys who were fired. You remember, the scapegoats Obama used when those New York socialites barnstormed the party. Just think, an entire career gone in seconds just for Obama to save face.

Member when Barack blamed the ATM machine for why unemployment was so bad. That was awesome.

There is agreement here. Illinois is the corrupt bully of the left. Government unions that have had their wings clipped in other states are flourishing here at our expense. I personally know three people who were such poor employees their own families fired them. They all have government jobs, and now they're superstar employees. They're also proof that there's no drug testing of state employees, at least not administrative employees. Voting out all incumbents is a good idea, mandatory drug testing from the president down is a great idea. Funny, you have to take a drug test to work at Home Depot, but not a job where your finger us on the doomsday button?

That stimulus bill rocked, it saved us from the brink. Man it was curtains, but then Barack added about a trillion to our debt plus interest, and we saw all those signs out on the road with circles. That infrastructure is sweet now, and our unemployment number needed to be cleaned using 3 million less jobs. Can't help but say lets do it again baby.

Welll...Richard has not spewed here for at least 30 minutes...he must have gone to the movies alright. I hope he brought enough lube & kleenex Anyone here miss him? I thought not.

An interesting analysis:

"The people who decided to make Obama popular did so through constant repetition that translated into the peer pressure of the trend. Obama became a trending topic and everyone followed along because in an unreal world, you follow the unreal leader.

Obama is fake, his popularity is fake, but it's also real, because fake is now the ultimate reality. The purveyors of fakeness have demonstrated their ability to transform the unreal into the real through manufactured consensus. By insisting that something unpopular was popular often enough, they made it popular. And by insisting that something popular is really unpopular, they did the opposite."

Read more:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/media_madness_and_the_reckoning.html#ixzz25OdvCntg

The Obama illusion:

"Even an unreal economy reported on by an unreal media cheering on an unreal leader can only run for so long until reality punches through the illusion, the curtain falls, the magicians scramble off the stage with rabbits and doves tucked into their pants, and everyone wakes up to realize that the dream is over and we realize that we are entering a world where the stories no longer matter and history is about to begin."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/media_madness_and_the_reckoning.html#ixzz25Oelq37t

And now we know why McCloud and Schulte get under the liberals' skin:

"As described by Glenn Reynolds in a classic 2002 essay, a preference cascade occurs when people trapped inside a manufactured consensus suddenly realize that many other people share their doubts. Preference falsification works by making doubters feel isolated and alone. In a totalitarian society, the dissenter fears that if he speaks up, his will be a lone voice, easily squashed by the enforcers of the regime. When dissenters realize they are not alone, and the true strength of their numbers becomes apparent, "invincible" regimes vanish with astonishing speed.

The same effect can occur without brutal oppression, when fear of ostracism and ridicule cause people to suppress their own doubts. This kind of preference falsification requires strict discipline from the makers of opinion. Since a free society makes it very easy for individuals to change their opinions, they must be prevented from even considering such a change. Manufactured consensus is very fragile in a competitive arena of ideas, when there is no fearsome penalty for a "Fresh Air" listener who decides to switch over to Rush Limbaugh."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/media_madness_and_the_reckoning.html#ixzz25OfbnWM8

The very thought that Rush Limbaugh isn't actually who they say he is scares them. If word gets out that Rush is actually a sane and reasonable guy, then the liberal scam is exposed.

OMG. . .

"Democracy Corps - that's James Carville and Stan Greenberg's polling outfit - has Romney up 16 points with independents.

16 points.

Voter ID typically runs low-to-mid 30s for Republicans and Democrats alike, leaving the remainder as Independents. What's that mean? If Carville and Greenberg have it right (and many other polls show Romney way up with Indies), it can mean only one thing: Democrats are being oversampled, and grossly.

Admittedly, voter ID is a tricky thing to measure, and trickier still to sample. But most polls I've seen have had D samples the same or higher than in 2008, when Black Jesus was still bringing us the hope and change and lowering the oceans and all that stuff. And they've R samples the same or lower than 2008, even though the GOP managed to flip 63 House seats in 2010.

The game is rigged. Don't let that stop you from playing."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/media_madness_and_the_reckoning.html#ixzz25Oi2npI2

Say it ain't so Joe (Biden).

The Clint Eastwood speech was simply brilliant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoqKdWY692k

". . . Clint Eastwood gave one of the greatest pieces of performance art ever seen.

Clint Eastwood knew exactly what he was doing -- as both an actor AND director he knows full well how to deliver a message that resonates. As a simple, practical matter his speech will be discussed for a very very long time and that will bring positive focus back to a very successful GOP convention again and again.

But Clint's true artistic genius was provoking the ready, fire, aim, liberal Obama Administration supporters, and was reflective of how the "take him down at all costs" pack journalism thinks. It was pathetic when they focused on his age as their attack line. So go ahead you fools insult the elderly, use getting old as a weapon to discredit an extremely powerful message done with fantastic humor. That will turn out to be very, very stupid media attack line in the run up to the election. Not to mention, how off the mark it is because Clint Eastwood was out-thinking everyone and was intellectually miles ahead of all of you."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/08/the_greatest_piece_of_performance_art_in_american_political_history.html#ixzz25Okb4GG5

Just Sayin: "A pal of mine and I were betting on whether you live in a sleezy motel with monthly rates, a empty swimming pool and broken lawn furniture or a beaten up old single wide with towels for curtains and a hot plate. No bed means I must win. Well...that is if the motel you live in was condemned and you are squatting. Nah...I think I win."

You're both wrong. I live in a hut in the bayou. No curtains on the windows-no windows. The hut is similar to the one that George Obama, President Obama's brother, lives in in Kenya.

Posting on a website 5 times between 4:17am and 4:51am, going to a movies by yourself, living alone with nothing to do but sit in front of a computer all day and all night interacting only with people on the other end of the computer, and no work because nobody will hire you. Does this tell you anything Mr. Schulte?

Conrad: Does this tell you anything Mr. Schulte?

Sure does. Means that Schulte is not a lazy-ass progressive. It also means that Romney wins in a landslide and that the recession ends in about 6 weeks when it becomes clear that Obama Administration is finished. Millions of construction workers celebrate going back to work and the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline finally gets started.

Thumbs up. The progressive agenda just died. Clint Eastwood finished it off on Thursday night.

Now, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I also think it means that Rush Limbaugh's audiene is going to double in size.

I think it also means that Barack Obama will be leaving for Cuba soon.

Those are quite significant achievements-hard work pays off.

Conrad: "Working away at reading rightwing websites and posting on this board. Is that your job Mr. Schulte?"

While the building construction industry is slow, I've taken a job as a community organizer. We're organizing against the re-election of Obama and against the progressive agenda. Our goal is the stomp Obama and the progressive agenda into the ground. Spreading the gospel of common sense is part of the job of this community organizer.

If Obama is defeated in the election, my business will come back nicely and I'll be quite wealthy. Nothing like perserverance. It took the colonists almost 8 years to defeat the British Army during the American Revolution. Sometimes things take a little more time.

Successful people are the ones who don't give up.

Hey RB,
The only way the Obama cut the federal headcount is by cutting the military in half. The civil service headcount has actually increased by 65%. Their pay and benefits have also increased tremendously. Your other talking points are false. So if you want to talk jibberish as you say and then call the taxpayers Green Acres idiots, go ahead, it is a free world, made that way by what is left of the U.S. military. Go ahead, make my day!

Just saying is a "Patch" follower and a teacher. I have had numerous run in's with her over the years. As you can see she is focused on personel attacks. Just remember U.S. Teachers come from the bottom 20% of grade point averages in college. They seem to have this ridiculous notion that they could somehow make more money in Business. Never..not from the teachers and Superintendents I have seen. They know they have got such a good thing going that they are fighting for their life.
Just sayin is a coward.

Richard,,
You make some excellant points.

Unlike Conrad aka Just sayin they attack on a personel level..

Sound familiar ?

Oh,,I love the Obama leaving for Cuba....

Priceless...

The best Eastwood comment was: And Biden the true intelectual of the Democratic party...

Clint Eastwood was magnificent

Do these loons on the left actually think that passing another jobs bill is the answer? No, they realize they are out of ideas, these job bills or stimulus attempts all have failed and resulted in more debt. It just gives them some crap to throw at Republicans. These tired old ideas from the 1930s are very consistent in outcome, they always fail to produce and build more debt.

I still think McCloud is a Schulte alias.

Reagan lowered income tax rates across the board by 25% in 1981, during which time mortgage interest was 26%, and inflation, unemployment were both double digits, in other words worse economic conditions than Obama. It took the economy about a year to absorb, at which time economic growth broke records. Liberals are still scratching their heads and distorting the history. Healthcare is destroyed thanks to Obamacare. The tax cuts would be for everyone, but the capital gains rate should be lowered to $0 for now.

I have to laugh at these loons who would rather speak about Reagan. That was 30 years ago. It is time for you guys to admit that your guy is a complete failure.

I should know better, but for the sake of discussion, how would a tax increase ever help an economy? Money taken from private sector means less investment, less productivity, less consumption. Evidence of wastful spending is too voluminous to fathom, but one can merely look at the stimulus for an example. Countless green companies filing bankrupcy after billions were poured into inefficient and artificial markets. Even Obama said early on after being sworn in that you don't raise taxes in a recession. So why the change in opinion?

Hey, did you know that Obama was a community organizer (just like me)? Damn, I may have to reconsider that community organizer thing.

"My research informs me that Barack Obama is a committed radical Marxist -- a socialist revolutionary. This is not kook talk. His entire history is one of early and continued exposure to communist ideology, and of his acceptance and championing of the socialist model.

No one believes that his work as a community organizer in Chicago was for any democratic or traditional American cause, or for charity. Obama has always advocated socialist revolution with the goal of realizing the communist ideal: a government run by an enlightened political elite in which the state owns all property and the means of production, and the people conform to the requirements of communal life: from each according to his ability, and to each according to his need. Obama has never been an advocate of rule by the consent of the governed, the capitalist economic system, and limited constitutional government. He has repeatedly demonstrated his contempt for constitutional republican government, the separation of powers, and the rule of law."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_love_him_hate_him_you_havent_a_clue.html#ixzz25QrPYgRF

Obama is a marxist.

Mr. McCloud, unless you make over $200,000 your taxes won't go up. In theory, trickle down economics should work. At least that's what I think. In reality, the wealthy who could be the job creators don't spend their profits on providing jobs. They horde their money in accounts and stocks and the people that work for them get pay cuts or lose their jobs so the profits can get bigger.

From "Dreams of My Father":

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and the structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets. We smoked cigarettes and wore leather jackets. At night, in the dorms, we discussed neocolonialism, Franz Fanon, Eurocentrism, and patriarchy. When we ground out our cigarettes in the hallway carpet or set our stereos so loud that the walls began to shake, we were resisting bourgeois society's stifling constraints. We weren't indifferent or careless or insecure. We were alienated."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_love_him_hate_him_you_havent_a_clue.html#ixzz25QvfLq6Q

"Obama left New York and went to Chicago to take a low-paying job as a community organizer with the Industrial Areas Foundation. He steeped himself in Chicago's dark culture of anti-Americanism and racial hatred. He became a disciple of Saul Alinsky, a socialist radical and community organizer, who wrote Rules for Radicals. Obama became so adept in Alinsky's principles and methods that he taught them to others and to radical organizations, including ACORN."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_love_him_hate_him_you_havent_a_clue.html#ixzz25Qwf6uZs

Reverend Wright, Obama's minister:

"... The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, not God Bless America. God damn America -- that's in the Bible -- for killing innocent people. God damn America, for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America, as long as she tries to act like she is God, and she is supreme. The United States government has failed the vast majority of her citizens of African descent."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_love_him_hate_him_you_havent_a_clue.html#ixzz25QxGTusA

"Obama's political ambitions have been endorsed by the New Party, The Socialist Party USA (Workers of the World Unite), the Communist Party USA, and of course, the de-facto socialist party of America, the Democratic Party. There is no real secret about where Obama comes from or where he wants to take us. Never in the history of our nation have we had such a powerful leader whose entire life has been so thoroughly steeped in socialist revolution and communist ideology, and who has so openly advocated such anti-American ideas."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/obama_love_him_hate_him_you_havent_a_clue.html#ixzz25QyOwgQ2

You failed to answer my question, and please try to flush the political garbage away and think. My question is how does raising taxes, on anyone, improve an economy? Taking money from private hands means lower investment, lower productivity and lower consumption. So how does Obama's solution, tax the rich, translate to improving the economy?

Rich, your Community work has really inspired me. I was going to wait until after the convention, but I'm gonna go write another check to the DNC right now!

It would certainly stand to reason, that higher income earners consume more than the lower income earners. They buy larger more expensive homes, cars, clothes, food, and much more than lower income earners. Without being able to locate the data, it is reasonable to say that a good percentage of the total US consumption is done by higher income earners. So I ask you, by taking the higher income earners opportunity and earned money away from them in a Tax the Rich scheme, how does that improve an economy. Will more be consumed, which translates to more jobs, production and investment? I think not.

Unless we the people demand a flat tax rate it will never happen. Neither the Dem's or the Republicans will put it through. The politicans are supposed to WORK for the people. Until we start demanding that they do nothing will change.

Did Obama say when he collects the money from his tax the rich scheme he would pay down the debt? Funny, I didn't hear that one. The economy in the late 1970s had marginal rates near 70%, yes, but the total budget for 1979 was 504 Billion. We are now in year 4 of over 1 trillion dollar budgets, why not go back to $504 billion?

Conrad, perhaps an Econ 101 book can assist you with your struggles. Spending millions on planes, boats, cars, 4th or 5th houses, means that there are people out in the world who need to make them. You are probably familiar with the term job?

"Wait! You need a photo ID to get into the DNC? Gosh. Could they be more racist? #VoterID"

From Michell Malkin's Twitchy website

http://twitchy.com/2012/09/02/suppression-dnc-charlotte-identification-required-even-just-near-convention-site/

No bounce from the convention:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/la-pn-mitt-romney-convention-poll-20120903,0,3835655.story

Lowest rated speech since 1996 according to the Gallup Poll. Only 38% rated Romney’s address good or excellent. Mitt's slipping away Richie. Get ready for the Obama tidal wave.....
Lowest rated speech since 1996. Only 38% rated Romney’s address good or

http://www.nationofchange.org/labor-day-without-jobs-exposing-job-creator-fraud-1346678884
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/01/09/bush-on-jobs-the-worst-track-record-on-record/
"President George W. Bush entered office in 2001 just as a recession was starting, and is preparing to leave in the middle of a long one. That’s almost 22 months of recession during his 96 months in office.
His job-creation record won’t look much better. The Bush administration created about three million jobs (net) over its eight years, a fraction of the 23 million jobs created under President Bill Clinton‘s administration and only slightly better than President George H.W. Bush did in his four years in office."
I'm not laying the blame totally on Bush, but how did his tax cuts help the economy?I'm not asking for Obama's numbers here. I want to know how tax cuts for the rich created more jobs.

That quote was from the Wall Street Journal.

Empty chair day.

"An empty chair had been brought on stage before Saunders started speaking, but he ignored it for most of his speech.

“I don’t know if you noticed, but you see this chair? I don’t know if you noticed that he actually walked in with me. He’s invisible, he’s sitting right here. He’s been listening to everything I had to say,” Saunders said. “So I want you to welcome Clint Eastwood.”

“I’ve got a couple of questions. I’ve got a couple of questions I want to ask Clint Eastwood,” Saunders continued as dozens of attendees cracked up. “But first, buddy, what do you have to say for yourself? I didn’t hear you.”

“Clint’s been sitting here for the past hour. He doesn’t have anything to say for himself. Mitt Romney has nothing to say for himself. Paul Ryan has nothing to say for himself,” he said. “We’ve got to make our voices heard. We’ve got to speak loud and clear. If we do that, we will win in November.”

“Dirty Harry, Dirty Harry, make my day,” Saunders yelled, knocking the empty chair off of the stage."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/80591.html#ixzz25RDeEeM3

Try answering my question first, sans the Bush wars, as you call them. Raising taxes at any income level translates to less consumption, less investment and less productivity. Liberals lack the ability to think critical thoughts, they feel good when their jealousy is played with in front of plastic Greek columns.

McCloud/Schulte, I understand you'll never be convinced of anything logical about a tax rate increase on the wealthy. Less than 500 Americans hold more wealth than 150 million of us. I get that you don't get it.

McCloud, I'm familiar with the term job. I'm retired now but worked for 41 years before that. I'm not wasting my time feeding Mr. Schulte's maniacal ego and I'm not going to waste time proving you're a tool. If you're not Mr. Schulte, you drink from the same cup of tea party koolaid. You're just a waste of time.

Then please tell me how an increase in tax will improve the economy? You see, the rhetoric that fills your head can never wrap around this basic question. Your lame, pay down the national debt, has that ever happened in the history of this country? Like, paying off a credit card balance? Did Obama say he was going to apply the supposed revenue for doing this? Will the tax increase result in less money invested in overseas ventures? I get it that your head is filled on a daily basis with Bush wars, greedy rich people, save the American worker bit and you miss the elephant sized questions right in front of you.

This is a great site for a healthy debate. a less sniping at the heels would be
good. IMHO our country is in a debt crises. It will take many many years and a lot
of pain to overcome. We grew on OPM ie: credit cards and rising home equity.
Each day thousands of boomers retire to live out the rest of their lives on a fixed income. the numbers of Boomers entering retirement will assure less consumption.
How the Y's and Ex'ers will live there lives is anyone's guess. We all took on too
much debt and now we have to pay it back. The party for the Boomers is over
are we going to clean up our mess or leave it for our children to clean up.
Let's stop blaming each other!

You brought up wars, thats a different issue altogether. My question is more non-political and purely an economic one. How does raising taxes, on anyone at any income level, benefit the economy? Do you think you will reap more revenue and prevent investments from going overseas? Do you think those that are taxed will consume more, invest more, leading to higher productivity and jobs? I raise my hand like Clint Eastwood did with the smoke puffing, Blammo another liberal loses in the gunfight of logic.

Can someone explain to me what a green job is? I'm trying to prepare for the convention, and one of the expectations is that we need more green jobs. What the @#@#@#@ is a green #$#$#$ job?

Will the Democrats explain this whole algae thing? Are we sitting on the new Saudi Arabia of pond scum? Filler up with that Amoeba stuff

What happened to all that money used to bribe the goof in Nebraska and Michigan to vote for Obamacare? What is going on with the waivers granted to thousands of companies? I thought it was free healthcare and such a wonderful addition to our economy. Why would so many want no part of it?

"At the 2008 RNC convention Vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin drew an audience of 37.2 million compared to 21.9 million for Paul Ryan's last Wednesday night. The anticipation of a Beltway outsider fired up the populace. Palin didn't disappoint either. The former governor boldly called out Obama as nothing but a "community organizer" shored up by fake Greek columns."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/09/mia_at_the_rnc.html#ixzz25RrFswJi

Yep, that's all that Obama is, a community organizer just like me.

Is the Fast and Furious guy going to speak? Maybe he can invite the widows of the slaughtered and explain to them exactly what happened.

Saved the auto industry? How does that work? After reading about how the taxpayer is on the hook for. I don't know, hundreds of billions, did any of these Einsteins ask themselves, perhaps letting the companies go bankrupt, an investor would then be able to buy the companies without the shackles of the unsustainable UAW contracts, and actually build for a better future? Instead, the taxpayer is funding the UAW, great, now there's a future.

RB: ". . . I'll remind you that Mr. Obama saved the American Auto Industry."

Now this I got to hear. Please RB, explain how Obama saved the auto industry. I can't wait for this explantion.

Obama saved the United Auto Workers union, he didn't save GM. The UAW was given stock in GM, but rather than manage GM, the UAW sold the GM stock and put all of the cash from the sale into their pension and health care funds.

When a company goe bankrupt, the company can either liquide its assets or re-organize. Both United and American Airlines went bankrupt and they are still in business today.

The GM bankruptcy protected the UAW contracts and GM will be going back into bankruptcy once again soon.

I just found out the Cherokee woman is speaking, the one who is running for senator in MA, only she's not any part Indian. I wonder if the fact check lie people will be mentioning this and the Obama story about his mother. Perhaps we can meet Obama's sister, and the brother who lives in a hut?

I don't have Fox News, so I'm left with networks that admit purposely editing video and audio tape.

Hey, I just heard the lady who thinks I should pay for her birth control is speaking. Do you think the DNC will give her $10 for her efforts so she can enjoy Charlotte? Sure, they already have loaded up everybody's health insurance premiums by passing state mandates covering everything from Viagra to condoms, they feel the rest of us suckers can pick up the tab.

Lies, where were you when Obama claimed his mother died from the big monster insurance companies?

How about everyone getting back on the initial topic?

ok, I'm done.

Hey RB,
My stomach is just fine, but I must admit you and your ignorance do make me sick. I guess we can chalk up your ignorance to the teacher's union. Obama has saved nothing. You and he will both go up in smoke come November!

Hey RB,
You are so right! We just don't get it. We also don't get the Chevy Volt. Were you the one person that bought one of these amazing cars before production was canceled because there was no interest in an overpriced electric car?

From CNN:

"The unemployment rate in February 2009 -- Obama's first full month is office -- was 8.3%. Last month, it was 8.3%."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/03/politics/king-dnc-preview/index.html

An excellent job by Obama and his merry band of Democrats.

Of course, 8.3 percent doesn't include those who have stopped looking for work and those who are under-employed. Fortunately for me, even though there is little work in the building construction industry, I found a job as a community organizer. I'm organizing folks to remove Obama from office on November 6th. We all need to become community organizers working for the same goal-crushing Democrats at the polls on November 6th.

Obama and Democrats are anti-American. Romney and Republicans are pro-American. Vote for the Americans on November 6th.

August 29, 1776 Battle of Brooklyn

After the Continental Army forced the British to abandon Boston, the Continental Army marched to New York where it was expected that the British Army would next attack to gain control of the Hudson River. The British fleet arrived at New York as expected and the battle for control of New York and the Hudson River had begun.

On August 22, 1776, the British Army landed on Long Island and used the Island as as a base for their attack on Brooklyn. The Continental Army crossed the East River to oppose the British Army advance on Brooklyn. The British outflanked the Continental Army and forced the Americans to retreat to the East River. With the British to their front, the Continental Army was trapped. The Britsh fleet would sail up the East River and pound the Continental Army with its powerful guns, however, the fleet's advance up the East River was delayed by (a mysterious) fog.

Under the cover of the darkness and the fog, General George Washington slowly evacuated the Continental Army across the East River to Manhattan. Washington waited at the river bank until all but the rearguard had crossed the river before embarking to the safety of Manhattan. When the fog finally lifted, the British found Continental Army's works empty. The trapped Army had managed to escape.

If not for the fog delaying the advance of the British fleet up the East River, America as we know it today would not exist.

Frank Marshall Davis, Barack Obama and the Democrat Party-Frank Marshall Davis was a member of the Communist Part USA:

"With that, the steady subversion of the Democratic Party was on. This began a long march to transform the Democratic Party from the party of Truman and JFK to the party of Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama. And in a quite fascinating twist of history, Frank Marshall Davis, as a "Democrat," would go on to influence today's Democratic Party standard-bearer: Barack Obama.

Tellingly, Davis himself, in an eerily Obama-like sentiment, had emphasized the need for "fundamental change" in America -- advocating exactly that in his kick-off column for the Chicago Star on July 6, 1946. Well, with the Democrats and with Barack Obama, he has gotten just that. Frank Marshall Davis's presence will be there at the Democrats' convention this week."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/frank_marshall_davis_and_the_subversion_of_the_democratic_party.html#ixzz25VB1BJ00

Obama's 2012 campaign:

"What makes that 1980 election relevant is that it was the last national election and the only postwar election where a Democratic president widely perceived to have failed chose to run for re-election.

And what strategy did the Carter campaign adopt?

They sought to demonize Reagan as a tool of the rich, a cold-hearted wretch who would savage the safety net, a crazed anti-communist Cold Warrior whom it would be dangerous to entrust with nuclear weapons. Ronald Reagan was Barry Goldwater redux.

Yet, looking back, what else could Carter do? Looking forward, what else can Barack Obama do?"

"Yet, one wonders: After such a campaign, how does Obama unite and lead the country should he win."

http://townhall.com/columnists/patbuchanan/2012/09/04/last_recourse_of_failed_presidents

Good question-how does Obama govern after running such a campaign?

Fortunatey for America, we will never get to know the answer to that question. The 2012 election will be landslide victory for the Republican Party thanks to the TEA party.

This is rather interesting, Michele Bachmann worked in Jimy Carter's campaign for te presidency in 1976.

"Like Ronald Reagan and a great many others, Michele Bachmann is a convert to conservatism. Hubert Humphrey's Democrat-Farmer-Labor Party dominated politics in Minnesota, and Bachmann's family always voted Democrat. With her college boyfriend Marcus, later her husband, she worked hard for Jimmy Carter. To the bright-eyed, idealistic twenty-year-old, the peanut farmer seemed like a decent, humble, pro-family, pro-American guy. Bachmann's first trip to D.C. was to attend Jimmy's inaugural ball."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/michele_bachmann_and_the_left.html#ixzz25VNXm4e7

Ronald Reagan, former Democrat. Michele Bachmann, former Democrat. Schulte, forme liberal.

Richard,
Enough is enough, either get back to the original topic of " Who Is To Blame For Illinois' Pension Mess?" or just go away.

Mr. Schulte, you do know that Obama wasn't really in that chair don't you? That line was made famous by Dick Cheney, the Republican vice president for 8 years.

Labor Day Tweet from Eric Cantor...
"Today, we celebrate those who have taken a risk, worked hard, built a business and earned their own success".
Way to go Mr. republican...honor management on Labor Day! That's the true Republican view of working stiffs. He forgot to ask for a tax cut for the rich, but he only had 140 characters.

"1. Volt is not cancelled. plant is closed for 4 weeks like in March
2. Sales are increasing. August was record month. Sale by the end of July had already exceeded all of 2011 sales
3. It is not electric, it is hybrid
4. Project was started on Volt prior to Obama's 1st term.
5. Bush pushed for federal tax credits on Volt

Get your facts straight"

Electricity in the United States is principally generated by burning coal. Hence, cars which use electricity are actually coal-fired cars. I thought that burning coal caused global warming. I guess that means that those electric cars cause global warming.

The fuel of the future is compressed natural gas (CNG). Honda is selling a car with a CNG engine in it-the Honda Civic. Soon there will lots of CNG-powered cars on the road. Electric-powered cars are simly not practical.

The United States is the Saudia Arabia of natural gas.

I'm still left without an answer, how does raising taxes benefit the economy? Simple answer would be sufficient, leave out the Bush wars, the War on Women, the green stuff, thanks I'll wait...

Mr. Schulte, h m was very polite in asking you to get back to the original subject or stop posting. You've had your say over and over. Everyone knows what you think and I doubt anyone really cares. If you're going to keep posting about something besides the subject, get a blog.

You're a sad sad man Mr. Schulte. Pathetic really.

Socialism at work:

“The macro situation in Spain is getting worse and worse,” Mr. Vildosola, 38, said last week just hours before boarding a plane to London with his wife and two small children. “There is just too much risk. Spain is going to be next after Greece, and I just don’t want to end up holding devalued pesetas.”

Yesterday was Empty Chair Day. Some of the best photos from Empty Chair Day:

http://thehayride.com/2012/09/the-best-pics-from-national-empty-chair-day/

Th photo of Karl Marx and Obama is the best photo.

OMG, blood-sucking insects in the hotels used by Democrats in Charlotte-well, imagine that. Democrats and blood-sucking insects-they should get along well.

"The blood-sucking insects have made a resurgence in recent years, including reports of them at nine of the hotels being used for Democrats’ nominating convention this week in Charlotte."

Source: Bedbugs an increasing concern at DNC hotels - Washington Times http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/3/bedbugs-an-increasing-concern-at-dnc-hotels/#ixzz25WG8uPGH

Nothing to do with the topic.

Is anybody noticing a pattern with Mr.Schulte's posts?

Good answer.

back to the topic: the democratic leadership in springfield, the teachers who pay dues to the iea and the public sector state workers who pay dues to the seiu are all to blame for the mess that is our pension system. The politicians keep promising more and they know they can not afford more but yet the teachers and all the workers keep taking more. Every public sector employee, which includes state workers and teachers all got raises as did the state reps, senators and governor. So how does the private sector taxpaying guy get a break, he doesn't and its to the point where the private citizen has no chance and his vote does not matter in this state. once 40% of the population works for the government its hopeless because the spouses of these workers will vote on emotion so they can keep their jobs so this state is cooked like California. I live in crook county, which is a whole other story as you can't fire their workers because of the union. Tony Preckwinke was going to do it and tried and she is a democrook, who I did not vote for her. there are like 24,000 workers and not any work hard but you can't fire them Go to a DMV, and see a bunch of dead beats working and it takes 6 hours to get a drivers license like it did when I took my son to get his last year. you have 50 workers and it tokk that long. Why because no one can get fired and they all know it so why be effiecient

More "Empty Chair Day" photos on Michelle Malkin's website:

http://michellemalkin.com/2012/09/03/national-empty-chair-day-photo-album-part-ii/

Maybe we should re-elect Obama-he's the national joke.

This is even better than "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinski."

I hope Patch puts up photos from Empty Chair Day from Evanston.

A question regarding Michelle Antoinette: "Are you eating better today than you were 4 years ago?" I'm sorry liberals, but you folks are just too funny.

On topic. Good chance the Democrats will get illinois Senate super majority. Only one seat needed. Then, we can get the pension mess fixed.

Seems to be consistent Democrat political hack talk, yeah we created a pension mess, bit we can get the pension mess fixed. Or, yeah the economy has record unemployment, foreclosures, debt and credit downgrades, but we can get this mess fixed by taxing those greedy rich people. Pathetic.

Uh-Oh, Geronimo's grandson is mad, the keynote speaker who claimed she was Cherokee until they investigated her and she is actually German, watch your scalps Dems.

Get your tissues ready, Barbara Fluke will bring you all to tears with her struggles to buy condoms.

I'm sure Bill can help her, maybe even give her a package.

When will voters learn that term limits work in their favor and the absense of term limits work in the favor of an elected official who continues to occupy a specific office election after election? Politicians should be limited i their ability to keep a specific posiition yet abie to run for another elected office. Ask the question: would Mr. Madigan be successful on a different (read: local or state) or larger (read: national) stage?

What time is "Sandra Fluke Does Charlotte" playing tonight?

$3,000 a year for birth control-it's like $8/month at Wal-Mart. No wonder health insurance premiums are increasing.

New drinking game! Every time Richie is off topic we take a swig, and when McCloud is not on topic, we take half a swig. Shouldn't take too long before the keys have to be taken away.

Why just a half swig for me?

Pro worker? From what I see the Democrat Party is pro-sit on the couch and watch Ellen and get paid for it.

I'll be watching for anyone with cheese fries tonight, must notify Michelle pronto. I'm sure the familes of veterans are glad she choose fried foods over their plight as her mission in the white house.

Mr. Schulte since you don't care about remaining on any topic that Limbaugh hasn't discussed in full here is what a true Republican looks like.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/revolt-of-the-rich/

Well, that's enough fun for me. So long!

Did the truth-out guys finally move out of that garage where they were blogging?

I don't know anything about that McCloud. I do know that this guy was a Republican for as long as he could stand it. Instead of asking questions about the source of the article, why don't you read it?

R & R are dead in the water. Barack will win again. : p

I have a hard time reading stories written by two truth guys who were just reprimanded by their mother to get an apartment on their own.

Conrad: 9:34 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 "You're a sad sad man Mr. Schulte. Pathetic really."

Conrad 3:01 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 "Off topic"

Conrad's posts say it all. . . .he's goes off topic and then complains all day about other people going off topic. Really kind of amusing.

When the Democrats pull out the "pathetic" word, you know that you're getting to them. I consider being called "pathetic" a compliment. It's sort of like the "racist" and the "hater" taunts. They are just "all-purpose" taunts hurled by the Democrats.

Besides, why would I care what some Republican thinks, I have a mind of my own. I speak from purely an economics view, the political statements I make are usually to illiustrate how stupid people are who for example would give the podium to some college student whining about her birth control not being free. Could it get any more pathetic? Limbaugh was right in taking a shot on this one.

Sully: "Well Richie, I'd say there's a better chance of the Michigan Militia, or some paranoid delusional Rush Limbaugh listener attacking an American citizen then there is of the black helicopters swooping down and taking you in the middle of the night. I mean if you really were some kind of radical that anybody had heard of, don't you think you'd be in the internment camps by now? Come on, Rich, that's just common sense."

Dr. Sullivan appears to be paranoid. I guess I need to find the video of Jimmy Hoffa threatening the TEA party folks with violence.

I also thought Clint was exquisite in his speech and delivery. It was original and made alot of folks upset, mission accomplished. Hopefully there are some people out there who are in the dark realize that we need to let this guy go.

Just like his NCAA selections in the brackets, Barack also has difficulty picking winners in the marketplace, see Chevy Volt, Solyndra and the 30 other green bankrupt companies. You see, the money always picks the winners, see Las Vegas for an example.

Conrad: "I don't think anybody here gives a sh_t about what you think . . . "

No doubt about it, I'm getting under the liberal's skin. They can dish it, but they can't take it when you give it right back to them. Alinsky works both ways. If you don't like having Alinsky tactics used on you, maybe you shouldn't use Alinsky on McCloud, cynthia and Schulte.

Hey I was just wondering. Does this rag even have an editor? If so, what does he or she do all day? It's looking like anybody can say anything any time. It doesn't matter. .Who cares if it's offensive or is supposedly against Patch's rules. Rules are for losers, right Schulte? So Rich, you go ahead and insult and demean and anything else you want to do! So get to it man! What are you waiting for?

Quinn is speaking now. This should be good.

Yeah censorship, just like in old Rissia.

Jenny-

Of course you are getting complaints. I'm doing exactly what has done to me for the last 13 months. I would hope that you would read Saul Alinsky's "Rule for Radicals" so that you understand what is going on. When you tell Sully, Conrad and others to stand down, I'll be more than happy to stand down.

rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Fisher <jenniferf@patch.com>
To: fpeschulte <fpeschulte@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 4, 2012 5:50 pm
Subject: Patch comments

Hi Richard,

I hate to come down harshly on someone as engaged as you are with Patch, but I wanted to let you know that the editorial staff has received several complaints about your comments recently. I've noticed some name calling (like "dummy"), and while it doesn't stray into profanity it does bring down the tenor of comments on Patch. Would you please refrain from making personal attacks on other commenter's intelligence or character?

As always, we truly appreciate you reading the site and engaging with other readers in the comments. I hope you understand, however, that we're trying to create a forum where readers feel comfortable that they can share their opinions without coming under personal attack.

Thanks for your understanding, and for being a loyal Patch fan.

By the way, who did Obama pick to win the NCAAs?

Jenny, my apologies for putting your e-mail note on this thread, but what's been going on this and other threads is right out of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". This could be addressed very simply by requiring Sully and Conrad to use their full legal names, rather than posting anonymously.

You need to go through the posts and see the personal attacks made on me. Frankly, I don't care-it doesn't bother me one bit, but the rules should be applied equally to everyone.

Sully needs to be booted from posting. I've said that numorous times. Just getting rid of Sully would clean things up quite a bit. To assist your review, see the following link:

http://evanston.patch.com/users/sully-6/comments

What's your excuse for your responses to anybody and everybody who disagrees with you? It's not just me buddy. But yes, I can see why you would want me booted. Under all that grandiose pontificating is just a lonely, insecure, and angry man.

Well, I could put up examples of Sully all night long, but I'm sure I'll get bored sooner or later:

Sully 2:57 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012

"You see, Rich, that's why you're a fraud. What Libor did absolutely hurt the economy to no end, yet you are so narrow-minded and fixated on blaming democrats for everything wrong in the world, you can't even consider the evidence. And whether you choose to believe the stimulus, the GM bailout, and healthcare is the reason for today's economy, you are simply misinformed. Some how I have to believe there are other reasons for you losing your home. Where's that personal responsibility?"

Nightcrawler 4:14 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012

Just yesterday, Sully tried to tell everyone he doesn't hurl insults directly at people.

I guess telling someone who lost their home because of a bad economy that they've "a fraud," like you did above doesn't count as an insult. What an idiot. Personal responsibility? How about your president promising that the national debt would be cut in half by now? What about the unemployment rate being almost DOUBLE what it was at ANY time during Bush's terms?

Don't lecture us about personal responsibility when your lying president has shown NONE himself. All the liberals do is blame everything on Bush.

Sully 4:48 pm on Saturday, August 11, 2012

Hey Joe, I didn't call Richard a fraud because he lst his home.i called him a fraud because he continues to ignore facts that don't mesh with what Rush tells him and he refuses to answer direct questions. I also don't recall ever using the colorful language that you prefer to use- "liberal fart smell"? Good one. I hate to tell you this, but Obama is your president as well, unless you're not an American citizen. I never said Bush was not my president. I never said democrats are completely blameless. I even disagree with Obama on several issues (such as having Emanuel and Geitner as advisers and his cozy relationship with wallstreet). If some of you cared to look with a nonpartisan eye, you'd see Obama has done several things that would please you if he were republican. But since you can't get past your blind devotion to the right wing, you only see what they want you to see and do t question anything they may say.

Sully, 11:07 am on Tuesday, August 7, 2012

"How very adult of you to criticize someone for not knowing the exact laws for gun ownership. I don't own a gun, so I don't really need to know everything. Rick, since your mental age seems to be about 11, I'll do you the favor of ignoring the rest of your comments. You're welcome."

Sully 2:40 pm on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

Paranoid as well as not on topic.

Oh yeah Rich. Just awful personal attacks. I've used every cuss word in the book and I'm always calling you a derogatory name. Please, keep posting these terrible insults I've inflicted upon you for absolutely no reason.

I'm finished.

Sully 9:54 am on Tuesday, September 4, 2012

I'll second that, Rich. You are a sad sad man who has way too much time on his hands. Whoever wins in November, that won't change.

Sully 3:27 pm on Tuesday, August 28, 2012

What planet do you live on? Democrats want to destroy the country? Boy, Rush has you well-trained.

Sorry people. I'll refrain now.

Sully 7:43 pm on Monday, August 27, 2012

Golly Rich, you're just too smart for me. What was I ever thinking?

Sully 6:16 pm on Sunday, August 26, 2012

Oh, of course. Saying 'you make me sick' is name calling. Sure Rich.

Sully 4:28 pm on Sunday, August 26, 2012

. . . .This particular thread is over McCloud. You make me sck.

Sully 3:17 pm on Sunday, August 26, 2012

The deeper issue is women's rights and the seeming misogyny of men in the republican party. Why should a man be able to dictate what a woman is to do with her own body? I wonder how flippant you would be if your mother, sister, wife, or daughter were raped.

Sully 12:37 pm on Sunday, August 26, 2012

Nice Lee. Very classy.

Sully 9:36 am on Saturday, August 25, 2012

What are you talking about Richard? You don't have a job and you know it. You can pat yourself on the back as much as you want (nobody else will), but Alice actually works . What do you do besides sitting in front of your computer all day, posting on a local website (which supposedly isn't even local for you anymore), and listening to Rush every afternoon? How productive are you compared to her? I'd say not very.

Sully 8:54 pm on Friday, August 24, 2012

So RB, I guess Richie-Boy doesn't realize then that I've posted several Addictinginfo links.

Sully 3:25 pm on Thursday, August 23, 2012

Richie loves those quotes. That's all he has. Well, he also has a lot of time on his hands, doesn't he?

Okay, time to take my own advice (from a liberal, no less). No more indulging Richie. He doesn't need any more encouragement.

Sully 10:05 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012

At least delusional. And he's from Texas.

For someone who accuses me of stalking, you sure do address a lot of your posts to me. You seem to be obsessed with proving me wrong. That's a pretty good indication of your insecurities.

Sully 8:52 am on Thursday, August 23, 2012

Actually, they're a little more self-rightgeous than a nine year old. A nine year old can learn. These guys don't want to.

Sully 6:59 am on Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Look people, It's been established without doubt that Richard is paranoid delusional. His latest assertion, that Obama is building up an arsenal to use against the American people when he loses the election, is pretty much the final nail. He also advocates for civil war. We should let him rant in peace. No matter how many facts to the contrary, he will never believe Rush lies and will always believe the left is "evil". Why waste anymore time on him. I love to debate, but it's not worth it with someone like Rich.

Sully 4:24 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

You are really sick, Richard. That's why I don't give my real name. So people like you, who doesn't live in reality and is constantly angry, don't come after me or my family. It's a good thing you don't own a gun (or at least you say you don't). Enjoy your paranoia.

Sully 1:00 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

I meant that in all sincerity, Rich. You live life scared You believe everything is all good or all bad with no in-betweens. You sit in front of your computer and do nothing but post political nonsense. You feel hopeless, so posting is the only way you can feel in control. You listen to right wing pundits who confirm every belief you already hold, so you get security from that. Maybe you can think for yourself but you're too scared of what you might find out. Too bad.

Sully 12:43 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

It's got to be tough living inside your head.

Sully 11:10 am on Tuesday, August 21, 2012

Everybody is going to lose their homes soon? Does that include all in the Romney collection? I'm very secure with my home, as are my relatives and most of my friends. Your hyperbole Rich is nothing but that- unrealistic hyperbole.

Time to take a break-think-I'll watch the Democrats talk abou Bush.

The Sully comments above are mild compared to the vile stuff he was spewing around Christmas time.

Rich, I'm guessing you won't hear as much about Bush as you think. We'll see,but I think you'll hear a lot about the future with Obama as President vs. the future with Romney/Ryan in office. Probably something about the Republican blockade of his efforts to improve the Country.

"Why not cap pensions and golden parachutes of CEO's instead." Did you just arrive here on King George III orders where you decree how much money people should make? I heard a decree that Carol B Davis no longer can post here until she reads a book on American history.

Are you happy to have turned this into a school yard argument Mr. Schulte? You have taken a thread on a community site (a community that you aren't even a part of anymore) and turned it into a he said she said. Do you not get what the issue is? Yes, Sully has said some things about you, insinuating you not being intelligent. It's not friendly. He never likened a poster to the star of an X rated film. That is offensive. There is a difference.

Sully needs to be kicked off Patch.

I just heard some dog whistles go off. Sandra Fluke is secretly in love with Rush Limbaugh, clearly evident from her speech.