It's becoming increasingly clear that this is all about the money and keeping unions in a position of power against the taxpayers. It is all hands on deck for these unions. For this to happen with a 3% raise already on the table and no changes in health insurance proves this point. If you don't see this, you've been duped under the emotional guise of teachers are saints and it's all about the children.

John you're an idiot

I was just looking at the teachers' website. With all the spin going on there I got dizzy and then a little bit nauseous. It is really sad how these intlligent people have imbibed of the Union Kool-Aid. What is even sadder is that they are actively burning through their goodwill with the community. Best and finals are on the table. It is now time for one of three things to happen:
i) the Union can recognize that they BOE offer is good and accept it;
ii) the BOE can act against the wishes of the community and accept the Union's demands; or
iii) the teachers can recognize that the Union is a destructive force and they can come back to work and those who want to move on are free to do so.

Hey Go Scouts, is Me an idiot too??

Just wondering if anyone noticed starnge people walking the picket line today?
If so they are teachers from Chicago.

As a LF resident, taxpayer, and parent of a LFHS student...
- I applaud the BOE for standing strong against the uneconomic, market detached demands of the LF teachers. The teachers need to take a step back and get a better understanding of the current reality of the housing and jobs market in our community.
- I thank the volunteers, parents, and administrators who have all gone above and beyond to open the school doors this morning. Meanwhile, there are some teachers actively encouraging students to not show, and equating this to "crossing the picket line" - absolutely disgusting.
- I have tremendous admiration for Coach Spagnoli who, at great personal cost, has decided to put the interest of his players in front of his own. I just hope that the parents continue to support him - to counter the almost certain hostility of his colleagues - long after this strike is over.
- and finally, I'd like to encourage other concerned parents, residents, and taxpayers to continue voicing their opinions on forums such as this. Only by letting our voices be heard, do have any chance of ending this fiscal nightmare.

@Go Scouts, I think the name calling is not appropriate here. The BOE has tabled the tiered system for this new 3 year contract and a phase in on the health was agreed upon it appears the LFEA and that is a compromise. So that leave one remaining issue.....money.

Other teachers from different communities walking in support of the LF teachers? I wonder if they're taking time away from their classes for this?

Here is something to think about. How much are we paying for this strike? Lawyers, PR, etc? How much are we really saving here? What is our long term interest here? Probably our home values, more than our taxes. If people feel Lake Forest does not support education, kiss your home values good bye. People are outraged by the salary demands, and they are a bit rich and need to come down, but let's get rid of the drama and the theatrics of post it notes and no appearances. A big part of the incentive to teach is psychic reward, and I would say that we have more than whittled at that. I just hope we can all forgive each other. Here is an interesting article about how American teachers work longer hours than teachers in other developed nations and make less here too.http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/does-it-pay-to-become-a-teacher/ Dr. A said it best a couple of days ago. It is about outcomes. Our experienced teachers are getting strong outcomes (and no I don't care if our scores are highest, they are very close)We need a compromise here that values and balances everything. The "instructional programming" was not the AP class my kid signed up for. Compelling attendance so that kids can have activities has it backwards. Education first. When adults squabble, kids lose. Let's get back to real classes with real teachers and a signed deal. Enough showboating, both sides.

@Hmmmm6 wrote: "How much are we paying for this strike? Lawyers, PR, etc? How much are we really saving here? What is our long term interest here?"
- the long term interest is in producing a solution that allows LF residents to continue remaining LF residents. My annual tax bill is over 40k a year and accelerating!!!...this is not sustainable.

@ BJ Tyler.Personal tax burden is not the issue here. The LFEA wants more money than the board wishes and they want the money to come out of the surplus, hence their position that it wont change our tax burden. The board is trying to re-establish financial stability to the district. The last 5 year contract before the hard freeze drained the School's surplus.

@LF Resident: that is a ludicrous notion! Even if their demands were to be met through a surplus fund, how did that surplus fund come about?!?!?!? it came from my (our) tax dollars. The surplus belongs to tax payers! not the board and not the tooth fairy. Any increase in teacher comensation comes directly out of our pockets...it may or may not make a tempory layover in a "surplus" fund...but it still comes from us.

@ BJ Tyler, Yes it always comes from us, but you know that the tax rates will not be reduced by the local government bodies. They will still get us either way. But I would rather see the schools surpls restored and have the emergency funds so when the States increases the schools pension liability they have the funds to cover it. The LFEA sees the money in the budget going to surplus and they want it for themselves.

@Christine--I believe they are tabling it for further study so it is something that is not going to happen on this negotiation.

@ Christine The BOE have taken it out of this contract negotiation and will work with a group over the next few years on how to address the issue. Zion and HP both have a 2 tier system in place, I believe. The salary matrix/schedule has to be extended since the State extended retirement from 55 to 62.

Did anyone read the post in the Gazebo News by a LFHS teacher claiming that's it's not about the money? Absurd! One of his reasons for being on strike is: "In most places in the country, teachers make about the same as the median household income of that community. In Lake Forest, teachers make half of the median household income." He's clearly forgetting to add in his guaranteed pension of $1 - $2 M (over the course of 20 years), plus his expensive medical benefits. And, just because he works in an affluent community, that should be reflected in his salary? Are you kidding me? Using his logic, the teachers of Chicago need to take a huge pay cut because their average salary is almost $20K more than the average resident. Does he really think he works so much harder than high school teachers in less affluent areas and thus deserves a higher salary? Does he really think that teachers in lower paying schools aren't as educated or experienced as he, thus deserving a higher salary? Get real teachers! If it wasn't about the money, you wouldn't be walking the picket line.

@ Jim, Thank you and that is all that need to be said as to why we need and all schools will eventually have a 2 tier system!

This morning I dropped off our daughter at the school. I had to wait in a long line of cars (longer than normal) because the striking teachers were blocking the flow of cars into the drop off zone. They were walking across the street 20-30 at a time, slowing the progress of cars. They were also slowing the progress of the students walking to the school. The teachers could have stayed on the sidewalk between the entrance and exit to the school, but they decided to disrupt the flow of students/cars into the schoo. Nice job teachers, real mature. Yes, let's reward such behavior with a 19% increase (after three years). No, I think not. I hope the school board heard the parents at the meeting yesterday. According to the poll taken by the Patch, 78% of parents are against giving in to their demands. HOLD STRONG BOARD!

Those who can do, do. Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach (for $106k), picket and block traffic.

Interesting interview this morning with Chuck Gress on WLS radio...
http://www.wlsam.com/article.asp?id=2534533&spid=17424

Teaching evidently now is a 12 month a year job.

In business, if something is fundamentally flawed market forces wil correct it. That is exactly what is happening here. Stay strong BOE.

Hi JTW,

I listened to the Gress interview on WLS. As you pointed out above, now he is defending that the teachers really work 12 months a year as they take courses in the summer (what business pays people for the time spent in going to grad school?). Of course he didn't mention that getting more grad school credits also increases their "step" on the salary schedule---automatically! He ought to try going to night school like the rest of us do in the private sector as we don't get 25% of the year off! He also stated that the "best" education is directly correlated to how much they pay their teachers. He is living in dreamland. He can't possibly believe this??

I know that I can't believe that their entire union really feels good about this whole thing. It is a huge embarrassment and shows nasty greed on the part of the union at the kids expense as they are the victims here.

BOE---continue to be strong! Let's hire permanent replacements as soon as the law permits. Considering this story has become national, you will have an outpouring of amazing resumes from other educators that want these jobs as is.

I’ve been reading the comments over the past few days to get a feel for which side the citizens of LF are on. I’m glad that a majority are with the BOE, much to the dismay of some of the good teachers out there who may feel the good will between them and the community is now frayed. As for those marginal teachers my guess is that they really don’t care about the students. It’s pretty clear which teachers to reward, and which ones to remove… yet the system won’t allow this because of the union. In a highly competitive world we look to teach the next generation to develop that competitive spirit, to innovate and solve some of our most challenging problems, and when left to one’s OWN devices to find a way to come out on top. Yet somehow some supporters of the teacher’s union feel like they are teaching a valuable example to our students??? The only thing I see from the union is that choosing to leave one’s responsibilities to picket are characteristics of quitters. You quit on the students, and you quit on the community for what you claim as “fighting for something you believe in”, when in fact you are choosing the easy way out. Man-up, grow a back bone, and do what 99% of the rest of us do out there… get back to work and find a way to improve conditions on your own terms, and not behind some union boss.

I have a question of fact regarding the LF teachers union, their contract, and strike. Does anyone know:

At what point is the BOE legally able to fire the teachers on strike and replace them?
- what notice must be given?
- what if any legal steps must first be taken?
- would we be able to rehire some/any of the current teachers? at what wage?

I am reading a lot of posts that call for their mass firing, but exactly what legal options exist for the BOE?

As I understand.
You cannot fire someone for legally striking. There are laws and rules to follow.
The suits filed challenged the legality of the the negotiations and strike. The IELRB will rule on the merits. IMHO in this state toss a coin as to who wins. The decision in favor for the BOE could order the teachers back to work. If they do not return then they could be replaced.

Reagan was able to fire the air traffic controllers because it was an illegal strike and those who did not immediately return to work were replaced

Question: How long does it take for a Union to burn through the goodwill that has been built up over decades of cooperation?
Answer: Three days

Question: How long will it take for the bitterness to dissipate and the relationship to return to near normal?
Answer: It depends on how much longer the teachers allow themselves to be used as human shields between the Union demands and the students that the Union is holding hostage.

Since the teachers are on strike again this week, how often are they paid: weekly/bi-monthly? I hope these boobs realize that they aren't getting paid while striking. When will they get a wake up call and realize that teaching is more important than losing their jobs, apt, house or other fun activities?

I think today may be the first day they lose pay since it was mandatory attendance for the students.

Students should stop suppling the teachers with hot cocco and cookies and tell them to stop whining because they want to learn.

I am very curious to see how they treat the students when/if they come back.

What about all the student fees we as parents have paid for our children to be in sports, senior parking and other activities.

Will we get reimbursed for time lost? These are things we will never get back.

How many teachers crossed the line today does anyone know??

Negotiation is a dialogue between two or more people or parties, intended to reach an understanding, resolve point of difference, to produce an agreement upon courses of action, to craft outcomes to satisfy various interests of two parties involved in negotiation process.

You have to have two sides, obviously we are missing a party...

Yes, I did read somewhere that strikers get their salary while on the picket line. Doesn't seem right, but it must be in the contract the union put together. This whole thing is pathetic.

It makes the strike even more infuriating.

>The taxpayers don't ever get a seat at the table <

From someone who ran for representative office, this is a rather astonishing statement. The taxpayers are represented by the Board, whom they elected. Hello?

LFHS Striking Teachers:
During this debate, I have focused on facts and logic–insisting that others do too, recognizing points of agreement and disagreement with all sides, and expressing the majority opinion of parents and taxpayers.
One of you referred pejoratively to the community’s “true colors" and refused to explain that reference.
Today, the striking teachers have irreversibly shown their “true colors”: putting their own self interest and their union first, not our students:
1. Rather than rely on facts and logic to negotiate, they went on strike, deliberately holding our children's education hostage, solely to gain negotiation leverage.
2. Rather than provide facts when their unsupported positions are questioned, they resort to hyperbole or personal attacks.
3. Bring in teachers outside our community to picket, demonstrating that the debate isn’t about our community and our kids, but their unions.
4. Criticizing and attempting to disrupt any attempt by the district to provide alternative education to our students.
But, the striking teachers badly miscalculated: they have taken for granted parents who supported and trusted them, turning them from overwhelming supporters to overwhelming opponents. It is unlikely that support-and trust-will ever be regained.
We’re watching-our students are watching-and we will be watching more intently from now on. We demand pay for performance and call out those of you who have abused our trust and our tax dollars.

How about each side presents their best offer and we, the taxpayers, vote on which is the most reasonable. It's alarming to me that the people footing the bill don't get a say in this issue. I hope the BOE listens to the community and doesn't give in to the union demands, but who knows what the final outcome will be. Mr. Gress stated in an interview that the community is strongly behind the teachers, but I haven't seen this sentiment expressed anywhere except for a very small minority of posts here. From what I've seen, most want to start fresh with a new teaching staff unless the current teachers choose to get back to work. I realize that the Board is in place to represent its constituents, but given that this issue has become national news and can affect the reputation of our school and community, shouldn't each and every tax payer have a say in the final outcome? And, if the pressure is on to win our votes, maybe we'll see more reasonable offers presented. Just a thought...

Unfortunately, you can't have a "fresh teaching staff" because of Illinois law. There is a lot of fantasizing here about firing them all and replacing them...can't happen, legally. If you don't like that, then challenge your energies towards Springfield. Striking union teachers cannot be fired in Illinois.

As for the community voting on the offers, you already have representation via your Board. Running any government body (school board, state legislation, etc) through public referendum on issues is a quick road to chaos. You elected your Board...you must live with whatever they negotiate. That's representative democracy in action.

Wow, then you REALLY don't know who on the LFHS board. I can assure you they are about the most anti-union group imaginable. Lennie, if you're going to come into this, educate yourself on the players.

People who actually LIVE in the district....back me up on this one, even if we disagree on everything else. You all know as well as I do that the current Board is majorly anti-union.

The BOE is Anti union and anti student. Right now, very pro taxpayer. They need to balance the last two; and as Fred keeps saying, is it ever right for an adult to intentionally harm a child? (Thank you Fred for the clearest, shortest, most cogent discussion point contributed.) I think the BOE and the teachers are both doing so; they need to answer to Fred. If its ever right, it 's not right now. They are both doing it, for money. Get my kid back to CLASS, not the "instructional programming" that was the subject of lots of eye rolling and groans. Its HOMECOMING for crying out loud.

@James Rittner I believe Lennie was speaking in general terms.

Well, it appears they've been at it for about 11 hours now. That's a good sign. I'm sure an agreement will be reached that will displease everyone...and THAT is democracy :)

LOL or the BOE made the same final and last offer and the LFEA sat there all day and never made a counter offer. Oh yeah how can you counter a final offer? Let's bring on the replacements.

@Ralph I've been hearing the word compromise used a lot by the union side. Define what it would mean for the teachers to compromise? It appears to be a term used as a directive to the BOE and also to soften the perception of the union. So far the only compromise I've seen is by the BOE.

"Adult human being who intentionally harms a child" is to "evil"
as
"Child who intentionally harms a child" is to "ignorance"

Compromise as defined by Ralph Keen: BOE continues to make concessions until the Union is satisfied that it has extracted the maximum possible value out of the taxpayer.

Bad Faith as defined by Ralph Keen: BOE sticking up for the rights of the taxpayer

The Union keeps throwing up this smokescreen about teachers leaving in droves because of the dreaded tiered pay scale. I have one question......where will they all go? If other districts are such desirable destinations, turnover there must be very low meaning that openings are scarce. so does that mean all of the teachers will simply leave and go nowhere? Please enlighten me so that I can see the flaw in this reasoning.

Here is a different thought - perhaps a prerequisite for running for the board is having a student either at the high school or a child who soon will be attending. I thought people who run for a school board would actually care about the school and it's future. Obviously this board has one agenda. As a taxpayer, I would pay MORE for these teachers. My kids are that important and I much rather put my money towards their future success in the hands of THOSE teachers that everyone is bashing. The school is this community's largest asset. I hope the board wakes up from their fiscal dreams, stops using the high school's website to distribute their lies and maybe think about why they ran for this elected position. It is a school, a really good one- not a mutual fund. I blame them for this loss of educational time. Too bad we can't fire them.

I hope everyone heard what a joke it was at the high school today. It was insulting to our children's time. They got such push back from the kids for showing a Lake Bluff documentary, they put on a tape of an old Talent Show to appease them. My son was not allowed to go outside for lunch- why? In case the teachers might beat him up. Lake County Superintendent has deferred decision on whether today will count as a school day because it would be hard to prove there was much education. Board and Admin put your efforts into an equitable contract instead of trying to prove you can do this "without them"

I believe there was already a pretty equitable contract put forth by the BOE; perhaps it's time for the LFEA to come back to earth and stop turning their backs on our kids.

Once again for those people comlaining about teacher bashing. We do not have a problem with angry taxpayers venting on a website. We have a problem with teachers who refuse to accept a generous offer and who refuse to teach. The teachers own this mess. They should clean it up.

Also, someone was ripping on the BOE for not having any kids in high school. Well, I used to think the same way until I saw the petty vindictiveness of this teachers strike. There's no way a sane person would subject their kids to the possible wrath of the teachers union , so I'm good with present setup.

And if the board is so anti-union why do they bother offering any contract at all? They made a great offer to the teachers and we're getting a destructive strike for our generosity.

Oh yeah! I forgot to ask my usual question.

Can anyone give us a sane reason for why the teachers are striking?

The two tier stuff is off the table. They have a pay raise still on the table, while the rest of the world is going down in financial flames.

Well..................... We're waiting.

When I drove by yesterday I noticed that the teachers didn't order any high grade outdoor bathrooms. So if they have to go, do they cross the picket line and go inside? Maybe they should stop whinning - drop the signs, pickup a piece of chalk and TEACH!!!

You all need to look at the BOE instead of always blaming the teachers. Granted, I'm not exactly thrilled with the teachers right now, either. But the BOE can be a very difficult bunch. The BOE plays games. They spin the truth and manipulate numbers. They are pompous. Unless you've ever had to deal with them or ask them for anything, you don't know what they're like. They are the ones that need replacing. Many have been there for WAY TOO LONG.